“Christians” and Welfare

Greetings and Salutations.

The following interaction that I had of Facebook illustrates the sort of difficulties I run into when trying to engage El Cheeto’s cultists, or, the Conservatives who have ONE view of reality.

DCM: The Constitution says that one of the duties of the state is to provide for the public good (along with all the other rights we have). It is trivial to point out that this can easily cover at the very least healthcare.

No one says that there is a free lunch. However, there are many sources of funding in America that could cover the expanded costs with a huge amount left over.

I seem to have missed the place in the New Testament where Christ says “Screw the slackers and disadvantage. If they want MY help they need to get out and work for a living”.

CSM: No, it doesn’t say that, you are correct there but……..2 Thessalonians 3:10 – For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

CSM: Proverbs 10:4 He becometh poor that dealeth [with] a slack hand: but the hand of the diligent maketh rich.

CSM: 1 Timothy 5:8 – But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

CSM: FYI God tells us to help the downtrodden, the weak among us, it says nothing about helping the lazy!

DCM: I am not going to get into dueling Bible verses, here. I will ask, though…where does Christ say “Screw them…they don’t have a job, so let them starve?”

Your final comment lacks merit… The vast majority of people getting aid today are already holding down jobs that simply do not pay enough to cover the expenses of a place to live, and food to feed their family. Also, by the by, are you aware of the fact that there is a 60 month, lifetime limit on Government aid?

It is unwise to believe that everyone is like you, or that simply because you are a hard worker, who is having some small success that people who are NOT successful are “Lazy”

CSM: How would exactly you like to see it play out? Do you want a 70% tax rate, everyone on government run health care, under a socialist dictator? Because that’s where we are headed if liberals get their way. And the reason you won’t get into dueling bible verses is because you can’t.

DCM: CSM: Before Reagan, the top tax rate was 90%. And yet, we had people who were rich beyond imagination. You seem to not understand that the top tax rate only applies to the very rich. It is likely that YOUR tax rate would not change, or might drop.

As a matter of fact, single payer health care would be cheaper and provide better care than the current situation. So, yes, I would much rather see America move to that model.

You are simply spouting mindless Right-Wing talking points when you talk about Socialist Dictators. That is a lie, pushed by the Republicans, to scare the gullible into voting for THEM, and not looking too closely at how they really DO screw the citizens. Question this? Right now the wealth gap between the richest and poorest in America is close to 400 to 1. How did that happen? The Republican administrations passed tax exemptions that do not change the tax rate for you and me, and 95% of America, and cut the tax rate for the top 5% in America. Do you love that? How about the trillions of dollars of debt that the Bush 2 administration saddled America with? And, the gutting of the regulations that kept the financial industry in check? Because they were set free, a few people got billions of dollars, and a large percentage of the world’s countries teetered on the brink of economic collapse. If it were not for the 8 years of the Obama administration, America would be so deep in an economic depression that you would likely be scrubbing floors for $0.10/hour just to stay alive.

Also, about that whole socialism thing. let me give you a short list of socialistic programs that we ALL benefit from and are part of American society. Fire departments, Police Departments, Utilities, Schools, Road maintenance, disaster relief in times of flooding, earthquakes and the like. The payments that all those Republican farmers are grabbing right now from the government are Socialism. There are many more, but, this is just a quick set of example.

You really need to do a bit more in the way of continuing education. You seem to have a limited source of information, and willful blindness to a number of realities in today’s world.

Now…let me be clear here. I would like you to tell me exactly where Christ said “Screw them…they are lazy slackers…let them starve”

CSM: You poor little thing……..You just can’t stop asking that vulgar question, can you? Bless you heart!!! Would you like to tell me where it says it’s ok for people to live off the government while the middle class works themselves to death paying for it?

DCM: CSM: So, then, you have no answer to the question. That says a lot. Let me help you – Christ NEVER said that. Since you love quoting Bible Verses…how about these:

Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. Share with the Lord’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality.

Romans 12:11-13

If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

1 John 3:17

Then Jesus said to his host . . . When you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.

Luke 14:14

And if that does not convince you, I suggest you read this link

You seem to have the opinion that anyone who needs help from the government is a lazy slacker who is living off the government dole. That is SO wrong… Yes, there are some that game the system. But a vast majority of people receiving aid are good people in bad circumstances who are unable to improve their lot, and are just trying to keep their head above water, feed their family, and get enough resources together to NOT lose their job.

Proverbs 28:13-14 ESV
Whoever conceals his transgressions will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy. Blessed is the one who fears the Lord always, but whoever hardens his heart will fall into calamity

Finally…NO ONE making $10/$12 an hour is middle class…and if you believe this, you are lying to yourself. Those are poverty wages these days. If you really wanted to cut the tax burden on the so-called “Middle Class” you would push your Federal Representatives to remove the Trillion dollar windfall that this administration gave the very rich in America. You would push them to close the tax loopholes that allow folks who are billionaires to not pay a PENNY in taxes for decades. You would push them to remove the corporate welfare that hands over about 1.5 TIMES the amount spend on TANF. I suggest you read this article for some truth.

CSM: So you say……..

“So, then, you have no answer to the question.”

When in reality I did………

“No, it doesn’t say that, you are correct there”

You say……….

“You seem to have the opinion that anyone who needs help from the government is a lazy slacker who is living off the government “

But evidently you either misread or didn’t read or chose to ignore, in true liberal leftish fashion when I said on Michelle’s other post that you trolled………

“I have no problems with people accepting help, those who actually need it, the elderly, the sick or those with conditions that can’t work, single hard working mothers who need some extra help but when a full grown man capable of working lives on welfare, that I have no respect for.”

You see, you choose to ignore what conservatives say because you don’t want to admit that their words have merit because it does not go along with the leftist agenda. You troll these pages, posting your garbage and are mostly ignore until someone comes along and challenges you. Then you tell that person what they are even when they have spoken in no way the way you describe them.

Now let me school you in the real life situation of a person who could work but chooses not to……..

My husband is a district manager and from time to time he has to do mass hires for new stores. Most of the people who apply do not actually want a job, all they want is a signature showing that they went to a job interview so they can extend their benefits. These are perfectly able bodied people who are working the system. They blow the interview and toddle back off to get their next welfare check. AND YES……..that is how it works!!!

Conservatives are all for helping the needy, we are just sick and tired of helping those that “CHOOSE” not to help themselves.

If you spent more time listening to the right instead of yelling at them you might actually learn something.

DCM: 1) I will give you the point that you tucked in an agreement that Christ never said that…and then tossed a bunch of Bible verses out trying to prove that people who are not working are not worthy of help.

2) I am sure that if you search out all my postings you could find DOZENS of places where I disagree with one of your comments. However, I am talking about THIS thread. If you want to discuss other comments I have made, address them on the appropriate thread. in This thread, you have done nothing but slag people who do not hold down a steady job.

3) So..your husband interviewed them. Did he offer them a job? They are not ALL just showing up, as you say, to get a punch on their “Give me money I looked for a job” card. And, I have never claimed that there are not folks on welfare that work the system. My wife worked for Department of Human Services for 30 years. I doubt that your experience is as extensive.

4) What I am saying is that there are many, many ways that America is failing to support and improve the lives of its citizens. That almost ALL the failures are because of the unbridled greed and narrow-mindedness of the Republican party, and, if we truly want to even begin to approach the ideal of the “Shining City on the Hill” that our Founding Fathers envisioned, we have GOT to change the path we are on.

I did get my wife to read this thread, and offer some comments, based on her perspective of 30 years working for Department of Human Services. She had several points, but, the appropriate ones are as follows:

I have one more comment I will add before I walk away from this thread. When it is reduced to ignoring points I raise AND posting mindless Memes, it is obviously over.

I spoke with my wife about this, and, she has this to say about your comment of people coming in to blow off the job and just get a signature to say they had been there.

Of course that’s how it works. because the system wants them to take a job where they will take home maybe x $ per month best (multilply $7.25 x 38 hrs a week and subtract taxes) — NOBODY on the system can get a job that pays better than $8/hr or so — and then they will lose a good portion of their benefits AND face the choice of either paying out 60-70% of their take home pay for a GOOD daycare, or risking their children’s well-being by placing them in a state-subsidized daycare where they will still have to pay 30-40% of their take home pay to a place I wouldn’t trust to look after rats. I’ve seen those places. I’ve seen the “caretakers” there.

When they get a job, their children are almost immediately at risk: either from not having enough to eat and being at risk of losing their housing because Mom is paying everything to a good child care provider…. or because Mom can only afford to place her children in a daycare with untrained babysitters “caring” for them.

Honestly, the only thing ANYONE needs to know is that 80% of the people benefiting from food stamps and welfare are not old enough to work. At LEAST another 5% aren’t capable.

What is your solution to that? Taking the children away? Do you have ANY conception of how WRONG that is, not to mention how much more it would cost?????

DCM: The is the reality you invoked with your comment about your husband. I hope you read it and think about it.

While it would have been more interesting to discuss the points I raised, without the unending shower of insults and denigration you offer, as well as the deflection from my points. it has been an interesting discussion.

This entry was posted in Ethics, General, Humanity, Nuttiness, Observations, Politics, Ruminations and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

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