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Dave Mundt Ernie Tubbs Glad to see you have not passed out in an alcoholic haze yet. So…how about replying to the winning comment?
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Today, January 27th, is International Holocaust Remembrance Day. Today, we should spend a moment to cast our minds back to the atrocities that the Third Reich inflicted on a huge collection of people, focusing on the Jews. For those of us that SLEPT through History Class, millions of people, the good, the bad, the neutral, were labeled “The Others”. They were blamed for the economic and social problems of Germany, in spite of the fact they were innocent of those charges. They were, after oppression, and abuse, swept up, put in cattle cars, and transported to Concentration camps, where ALL were starved, beaten, and overworked.
Many of them were randomly selected and killed, usually in poison gas chambers. Then, their bodies burned to ashes in huge ovens that ran 24 hours a day for years, and the remains dumped into nearby
rivers. The images that the Allied soldiers saw when the camps were liberated left them with nightmarish trauma that had them waking in a cold sweat for the rest of their lives.
While it is very true that there were millions of OTHER folks swept up and killed in the Camps, the Jews were the main focus of the Nazi Party..they were “The Other”. They were non-white, they had different beliefs, and they were such hard workers that they made “normal folks” look bad.
The donald’s second act today was to issue an Executive Order which bans any person coming from a few, Middle Eastern Countries from entering the United States. Here is the text of that Executive Order,
There are several issues with this Executive order that are designed to make the world less safe for America, and so fail in its goal.
- This order takes effect immediately. This means that people who were flying to the United States are being detained at the airport upon landing, and either held, or are put back on flights that will return them to their point of Origin in the Middle East.
- This includes people who have valid visas and other paperwork allowing them to enter the United States.
- There are reports that this has caused Canadians holding dual citizenship, in both Canada and one of the countries Listed to be detained and returned to the Middle East. This is being applied even to people who are simply making a flight change in American Airports.
- A number of people affected by this are Iraqi translators and facilitators who have worked with American troops for years, making their life in Iraqi much safer for both the Americans and the Iraqi civilians. This is the same foul way we treated the South Vietnamese and Cambodian civilians who helped Americans in that War, and, ended up being thrown under the bus when we ran away. Many of them were killed for their efforts, and it is likely that many of these Iraqi folks will die, leaving more blood on our hands. This also will destroy the trust that America might have for following through on promises in the area.
That having been said…Today, we remember the Evil that happened in Germany, and, with hope, we believe that today’s efforts to turn the Muslims of the world into “The Other” will continue to be met with strong resistance. Do we want to avoid going down in history as the SECOND instance of the Nazis taking over a country? I, for one, do not want America to get that legacy. We should be better than that.
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- He has issued an Executive Order that gives the repeal of the ACA a huge step forwards.
- He has issued an Executive Order to start construction on the $30 Trillion boondoggle that is the border fence between America and Mexico.
- He has appointed a slew of Cabinet members who are totally incompetent at governing; whose main qualification is that they have given him or his family many, many millions of dollars; and whose goals are focused on destroying the agency they are in charge of.
- He has put a gag order on the EPA, blocking them from saying ANYTHING to the pubic…this includes social media postings, scientific reports, projections of coming events, etc. This is also happening with other agencies. HERE is an article detailing one of those gag orders
- He has frozen the hiring of governmental employees.
- He has renewed an ancient law that is still on the books that allows him to cut budgets and salaries down to $1.00 if he so desires.
- He has moved forwards (again with an Executive Order) to move towards removing the United States from their membership in the United Nations.
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Greetings and Salutations;
(The comment attached to the above picture was denigrating, and implied that the protestors were simply being thoughtless at discarding their signs.)
Dave Mundt: These are on the sidewalk outside the donald’s hotel. So, I fully support this action.
JSM: Yeah,you would
JSM: &it’s still called “littering”!
Dave Mundt: Protests are rarely neat and proper. That is kind of the whole PURPOSE of protest. I am fairly sure, though that there were curators from the Smithsonian out there, collecting a bunch of these signs for a future exhibit..
CM: So dave was your mom marching?
Dave Mundt: If she had not been dead for 30 years, yes…she would have been there.
CM: So she didnt want you then ?
CM: You need to really dig deep do research o this so called womens march and see what the founder stood for
Dave Mundt: What? are you delusional? What does a march for keeping the things that make America great today have to do with my birth?
Please read this blog entry I just put up…and learn something.
Also, why do youcall it a “so-called woman’s march”. Are you just being paternalistic, and denigrating women? It was a protest created by women, and organized by women. There were men involved too…but only because we support the truth they were speaking.
CM: Research the founder she was a racist
Dave Mundt: CM: Tell you what…YOU are making the claim, so YOU provide some links to reliable sources that prove your claim.
It is a fact that the Woman’s Movement has had problems with race, mainly because it was started by white women, and, they were so focused on the issues affecting women that they failed to reach out to women of color.That, as with all sane movements, is changing.
CM: Jus read her own work is all you hafta do in her own words the women arent out of any rights nothing has been took from them their marching for taxpayers to pay for their own fuck ups in their own life why should i pay for the meds or abortions get a job pay for the shit its that easy you dont pay my bills or for any of my things why should you thiers?
Dave Mundt: CM: Ok…I will type slowly. There are several co-founders of the Woman’s March. WHICH ONE are you talking about? Also…where are those links?
CM: Pick one they all the same and fuck off dont need you to talk slow do you need a pacifier while you do your research
Dave Mundt: CM: Young man…now you are just generalizing and thereby demonstrating your lack of education. If you insist on that being true, then, it is JUST as true that YOU are a White Supremacist,homophobic, hate-filled murderer. After all, you are a young, white male…just like D. Roof, and the members of Westboro Baptist.
CM: Enjoy your watching but see your the type that still wont admit your wrong or that what the movement stands for is bogus . And call me what you want think what yu want bout me im telling b4 you start with the libtard agenda and propaganda do a lil research not every march or protest is a good one most these women dont even know why or what they are marching for they are just there
The donald cultists are a perfect example of why America REALLY needs to work on its educational system. They are also an indictment of the Church in America, which allows this kind of hatred, and non-Christ-Like speech and actions to be “OK”.
God Help Us All
Bee Man Dave
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The protests throughout the country and the world exhibited support for the best spirits of the principles of Non-Violence, as practiced by Martin Luther King, Jr. and other great people over the years
. In spite of the fact that (just in the United States) millions of people came together, there were nearly no examples of violence. There was a great feeling of strength and solidarity that, hopefully, will sustain us against the open Evil that is infecting America and will be with us for some time into the future.
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Greetings and Salutations;
Well, one never knows when an interesting topic will pop up. An acquaintance of mine posted a rather thoughtful post on Facebook a bit ago. Dealing with the train wreck of America over the past 18 months, it raises some good points. So, of course, I got to thinking about it and discovered that I had more to say than a Face Book posting should have…So…Here we go. The original topic was on a post about Rick Perry being appointed by the President-Elect to the Cabinet position over the Department of Energy. The original article was pointed out the fact that the D.O.E. does not just deal with oil and such, but has charge of our Nuclear resources…including the weapons. Since Mr. Perry is (like all the Cabinet appointees) singularly unqualified for running this agency, there are a number of people who are concerned about the next four years.
The original comment was this:
Is there no handbook explaining that cronies are supposed to be given jobs as ambassadors to some small tropical or interesting country? And, NOT cabinet positions. Cabinet positions actually require important work.
Ideally we would create some number of official do nothing jobs to fill with friends and donors of the President.
I just learned that Parliament chooses the secretaries filling the cabinet positions in the UK. The Prime Minister is the appointed presiding officer of the cabinet but does not have any official hire / fire role for other cabinet members. As a matter of practice they do have a large influence. Of course, the Prime Minister choice is also driven by Parliament. As a formal matter they serve at the pleasure of the King or Queen. As a practical matter the ruler takes direction from the Parliament on choice of Prime Minister. To do otherwise may be a good way to end the monarchy.
I’m a fan of the Parliamentary system since the President or Prime Minister is then more aligned with Parliament so as to get something done. Reducing the power of the President to be more in line with the UK Prime Minister seems like a good idea. I really like cabinet members being more like peers with the President too.
I find it ironic to think the founders worked to ensure the USA did not have a monarchy. But, in modern times monarchs of major world powers have mostly taken symbolic roles (still important). The USA has a President who wields more power than monarchs and Prime Ministers not just because the USA is a great power, but because our structure of government. We may not call our President ruler or king but they may as well be.
It’s about time for a 2nd Constitutional Convention to fix some of these issues.
And my commentary on it is this:
I tend to agree with the first couple of paragraphs. In the past, this has resulted in folks being appointed to ambassador to Monaco, and such. I would be all for that. In a perfect world, cronyism would not happen…but, as we all learn early on in life…the world is far from perfect.
One of the few good things about the past few months is that it has given me a LOT of topics to discuss in my blog. I touched on ways to change our Federal Government without the pain of a Constitutional Convention in THIS entry – http://beemandave.com/beemanblog/blog/2017/01/10/sifting-through-the-ashes-part-2-a-instead-of-the-electoral-college-what/
However, I am also of the opinion that changing the political process will not address the root problems with America. I see some major issues that will have to be addressed before our Government, and our Nation, will turn back towards a more positive path for the country.
1) The Extremest elements in Congress will have to be voted out and replaced with more moderate views. I am fine with having at least two parties represented, as a diversity of views is the ONLY chance we have of finding the best path for the country. However, alas, since before Bill Clinton almost everyone has evolved to a view that the other side are foul demons from the depths of Hell. They are not Opponents with differing views…but Enemies who must be destroyed before they destroy US. This has, among other things, resulted in a Balkanization of Congress, eroding the concepts of civil discourse and compromise. This has brought us to the point that the attitude of almost all (Elected officials and Voters) is “Our Way Or The Highway”. The Left-Wingers are not without sin here, but, the Right-Wing is FAR more fanatical about this and has proved it time and time again. For example…Look at the way they dealt with the ACA. Not only were there huge delays in the process of getting it to a vote, but, in the process, it was stripped of so many of its provisions, leaving but a skeleton of what it started as. President Obama had a pretty great bill to start with. Yet, for a variety of reasons, the Republicans refused to negotiate on a fair basis. It was “our way or nothing”. What finally got passed was a great improvement, but, it was far from what could have been, and, its gutting has left us with problems that still affect all citizens.
The other example I submit is the Confirmation of a replacement Supreme Court Justice. It has been 11 months that the appointment of Merrick Garland as a replacement Justice. This has been blocked by Congress and allowed NO movement. This is an UNHEARD of length of time that has hurt the court’s ability to rule, and by extension, damaged the country. This blocking happened in spite of the fact that Pres. Obama’s choice IS a moderate, who (supposedly) everyone respected and has a strong reputation as a good Judge. He would have likely been an excellent Justice. Yet, the Congress not only refused to confirm him, but, they would not even give him a hearing to examine his qualifications. Now, in my view, this was one example of many of the Republicans in Congress failing to govern, and failing to do their appointed job. The unreasoning hatred that the Republicans in Congress have for President Obama and the Democrats ensured that they ignore what is best for the country, and instead do what they think is best for their Party.
2) The education of the population in general, and the Voting Public in specific needs to be addressed. the President-Elect did not win on rational debate, nor a solid, well thought out platform, nor, even, a respect for his character. He took the Office because he used inflammatory speech to dizzy and enrage his followers, to the point of being a lynch mob…not a group that should be electing a President. He also used the weaknesses of our Electoral System to take enough Electoral College Votes. He based his campaign on name calling and lies that would embarrass five year old children spatting on a playground. Finally, he had the help of America’s opponents who worked to spread lies and evil stories about his opponent, so as to undercut her reputation, creating mindless distrust.
These factors worked with the fact that (as with Congress), too many Americans have developed Extremest views. They have been failed by our educational system, which has not taught them the concepts of skeptical thinking, and using library skills to verify the truth of the statements made by a politician. The system has failed to teach them the concepts of civil discourse, examining facts, and being OK with changing one’s belief as one learns more about an issue.
Their parents and whatever source of ethics they grew up with (church, etc) have failed to instill a sense of tolerance for others and their views. This means that instead of respecting those people, we look upon them as ENEMIES to be destroyed. It has left us so limited in our view of reality and strength of character that while we may not BE misogynistic, racist, abusive, greed driven people for whom lying is such second nature that we have to WORK to tell the truth, those traits are not a deal breaker because we have convinced ourselves that the ONE issue we believe the candidate will go our way on overrides everything else.
3) The erosion of the roll the Electoral College plays in our system. It has moved too far from Hamilton’s view of its role in the process. In short..it has become a rubber stamp, constrained by (possibly unconstitutional) state laws, and political agendas, moving far from its original role as a firewall to keep a demagogue from using smoke and mirrors to take power in our country. I write at more detail on this in this blog post – http://beemandave.com/beemanblog/blog/2016/12/19/hamilton-weeps/ And in this post – http://beemandave.com/beemanblog/blog/2017/01/10/sifting-through-the-ashes-part-2-a-instead-of-the-electoral-college-what/ Note that these posts also touch on whether we should have to hold a Constitutional Convention or not. I believe that it would not be necessary if the state laws were repealed and the other changes I mention implemented.
Now…what can we, as Citizens who love our Country, what can we we do to keep the events of the day being such a train wreck that America will end up a smoking pile of debris on the great path of history? I suggest that here are some steps we can take.
Understand that anyone that tells you that a communication from you as a Constituent, to your Representative is a waste of time, because the politicians only pay attention to the lobbyists that write them the big checks, is lying to you. They are likely fearful that if you DO contact your Representative, it will destroy their chances for some big score from the Government.
Now…to help change your government and what it is doing, there are some simple things to do.
1) Use this tool – https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members to track down YOUR Representatives.
2) Email or call them to let them know your objection or support for the item of interest. When you do this, be SURE to follow these guidelines:
…..a) Be Clear about what you are talking about.
…..b) Do not write a lengthy, emotional rant. Be polite, and simply tell them whether you support or oppose the issue, and give them a single reason why you feel that way.
…..c) Repeat as necessary.
CLING to the basic truth that “All that Evil needs to succeed is for good people to do nothing” and use that as motivation.
Your Elected officials pay attention when 10,000 emails show up. They pay attention when thousands of constituents call them up. Why? Well, it is fairly simple. They like their jobs! They know that the folks that are contacting them are the voters that care and are paying attention to what they are doing. They are also the people that can vote for someone else if they are sufficiently unhappy with the job the incumbent is doing.
Politicians might ignore a petition with 10,000 signatures, but, 10,000 emails, phone calls, or snail mail notes make a big impact and will get their attention.
Then, contribute to the candidates who represent your views. Small donations are meaningful; time spent volunteering is meaningful; talking with folks about the views of your candidate and why you support them is meaningful. Finally, consider running for office. There are no better ways to get what you want done, than to do it yourself.
Educate yourself and others. Support your school systems, and push them to teach your children the vital skills of life I mentioned above. As for y’all…It is NEVER too late to learn something new. There are online courses available that are self-paced, and cover many of these topics. Most, if not all of them, are free too. Then, there is the alternative of Community College. There are excellent, small Colleges out there that can help us learn new things and they are not scarily expensive. Finally, when online…read and consider the alternative views out there. We all see things differently. Now, this is the Net, so, alas, it is likely that you will encounter a lot of folks who are closed minded, and have no valid arguments, so resort to name calling, and denigrating language. That is sad for them, but, I simply state the truth, and move on. Speaking of the truth…the Net is a complicated and deep Cyber-Ocean that contains truth and lies. When reading a web site, be aware of this, and make sure that any claims are backed up with evidence from reliable sources, and, that you can find at least two independent sources that provide that evidence. Also, read some of the other articles and see if they pass the smell test. If they seem kind of crazy…perhaps everything on the site is without basis.
Work to be tolerant. Try not to immediately reject another person completely because they have different views. Consider the points they are making, even if they disagree with yours. However, be strong in your beliefs, and if a person is being hateful, or basing their opinions on lies, do not put up with it. In a case like that, I will simply state the truth, and move on. Which, gets us back to the candidate question…I submit that if a candidate has many negative, abusive, hateful traits, even if they guarantee milk and honey will flow through the streets…reject them and DO not be sucked in by their lies.
The next few years are going to be a challenge for America. How we survive as a country will depend a great deal on how we, as individual citizens, react to the events that will happen. Will we throw up our hands, and walk through, staring at our Smart Phones and fuming on Facebook and other social media until we fall into a cesspool and drown? Will we end up a fanatical Theocracy that oppresses people whose life does not match ours? Will we live strong, and oppose the flood of Darkness and Evil that is coming? The answer to these questions depend on US as individual Citizens of what COULD be the greatest Country On Earth.
One day to go.
God Help Us All
Bee Man Dave
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Greetings and Salutations;
“”Letter from a Birmingham Jail [King, Jr.]”
16 April 1963
My Dear Fellow Clergymen:
While confined here in the Birmingham city jail, I came across your recent statement callingmy present activities “unwise and untimely.” Seldom do I pause to answer criticism of my work and ideas. If I sought to answer all the criticisms that cross my desk, my secretaries would have little time for anything other than such correspondence in the course of the day, and I would have no time for constructive work. But since I feel that you are men of genuine good will and that your criticisms are sincerely set forth, I want to try to answer your statement in what I hope will be patient and reasonable terms.
I think I should indicate why I am here in Birmingham, since you have been influenced by the view which argues against “outsiders coming in.” I have the honor of serving as president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, an organization operating in every southern state, with headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia. We have some eighty five affiliated organizations across the South,and one of them is the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights. Frequently we share staff, educational and financial resources with our affiliates. Several months ago the affiliate here in Birmingham asked us to be on call to engage in a nonviolent direct action program if such were deemed necessary. We readily consented, and when the hour came we lived up to our promise.So I,along with several members of my staff, am here because I was invited here. I am here because I have organizational ties here.
But more basically, I am in Birmingham because injustice is here. Just as the prophets of the eighth century B.C. left their villages and carried their “thus saith the Lord” far beyond the boundaries of their home towns, and just as the Apostle Paul left his village of Tarsus and carried the gospel of Jesus Christ to the far corners of the Greco Roman world, so am I compelled to carry the gospel of freedom beyond my own home town. Like Paul, I must constantly respond to the Macedonian call for aid.
Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states. I cannot sit idly by in Atlanta and not be concerned about what happens in Birmingham. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial “outside agitator” idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds.
You deplore the demonstrations taking place in Birmingham. But your statement, I am sorry to say, fails to express a similar concern for the conditions that brought about the demonstrations. I am sure that none of you would want to rest content with the superficial kind of social analysis that deals merely with effects and does not grapple with underlying causes. It is unfortunate that demonstrations are taking place in Birmingham, but it is even more unfortunate that the city’s white power structure left the Negro community with no alternative.
In any nonviolent campaign there are four basic steps: collection of the facts to determine whether injustices exist; negotiation; self purification; and direct action. We have gone through all these steps in Birmingham. There can be no gainsaying the fact that racial injustice engulfs this community. Birmingham is probably the most thoroughly segregated city in the United States. Its ugly record of brutality is widely known. Negroes have experienced grossly unjust treatment in the courts.There have been more unsolved bombings of Negro homes and churches in Birmingham than in any other city in the nation. These are the hard, brutal facts of the case. On the basis of these conditions,Negro leaders sought to negotiate with the city fathers. But the latter consistently refused to engage in good faith negotiation.
Then, last September, came the opportunity to talk with leaders of Birmingham’s economic community. In the course of the negotiations, certain promises were made by the merchants–for example, to remove the stores’ humiliating racial signs. On the basis of these promises,the Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth and the leaders of the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights agreed to a moratorium on all demonstrations. As the weeks and months went by, we realized that we were the victims of a broken promise. A few signs, briefly removed, returned; the others remained.As in so many past experiences, our hopes had been blasted, and the shadow of deep disappointment settled upon us. We had no alternative except to prepare for direct action,where bywe would present our very bodies as a means of laying our case before the conscience of the local and the national community. Mindful of the difficulties involved, we decided to undertake a process of self purification. We began a series of workshops on nonviolence, and we repeatedly asked ourselves: “Are you able to accept blows without retaliating?” “Are you able to endure the ordeal of jail?” We decided to schedule our direct action program for the Easter season, realizing that except for Christmas, this is the main shopping period of the year. Knowing that a strong economic-withdrawal program would be the by product of direct action, we felt that this would be the best time to bring pressure to bear on the merchants for the needed change.
Then it occurred to us that Birmingham’s mayoral election was coming up in March, and we speedily decided to postpone action until after election day. When we discovered that the Commissioner of Public Safety, Eugene “Bull” Connor, had piled up enough votes to be in the run off,we decided again to postpone action until the day after the run off so that the demonstrations could not be used to cloud the issues. Like many others, we waited to see Mr. Connor defeated,and to this end we endured postponement after postponement. Having aided in this community need, we felt hat our direct action program could be delayed no longer.
You may well ask: “Why direct action? Why sit ins, marches and so forth? Isn’t negotiation abetter path?” You are quite right in calling for negotiation. Indeed, this is the very purpose of direct action. Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word “tension.” I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive,nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, so must we see the need for nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood.The purpose of our direct action program is to create a situation so crisis packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation. I therefore concur with you in your call for negotiation. Too long has our beloved South land been bogged down in a tragic effort to live in monologue rather than dialogue.
One of the basic points in your statement is that the action that I and my associates have taken in Birmingham is untimely. Some have asked: “Why didn’t you give the new city administration time to act?” The only answer that I can give to this query is that the new Birmingham administration must be prodded about as much as the outgoing one, before it will act. We are sadly mistaken if we feel that the election of Albert Bout well as mayor will bring the millennium to Birmingham. While Mr.Boutwell is a much more gentle person than Mr. Connor, they are both segregationists,dedicated to maintenance of the status quo. I have hope that Mr. Boutwell will be reasonable enough to see the futility of massive resistance to desegregation. But he will not see this without pressure from devotees of civil rights. My friends, I must say to you that we have not made a single gain in civil rights without determined legal and nonviolent pressure. Lamentably, it is an historical fact that privileged groups seldom give up their privileges voluntarily. Individuals may see the moral light and voluntarily give up their unjust posture; but, as Reinhold Niebuhr has reminded us, groups tend to be more immoral than individuals.
We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor;it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly, I have yet to engage in a direct action campaign that was “well timed” in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation.For years now I have heard the word “Wait!” It rings in the ear of every Negro with piercing familiarity.This “Wait” has almost always meant “Never.” We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that “justice too long delayed is justice denied.”
We have waited for more than 340 years for our constitutional and God given rights. The nations of Asia and Africa are moving with jetlike speed toward gaining political independence, but we still creep at horse and buggy pace toward gaining a cup of coffee at a lunch counter.Perhaps it is easy for those who have never felt the stinging darts of segregation to say, “Wait.” But when you have seen vicious mobs lynch your mothers and fathers at will and drown your sisters and brothers at whim;when you have seen hate filled policemen curse, kick and even kill your black brothers and sisters;when you see the vast majority of your twenty million Negro brothers smothering in an airtight cage of poverty in the midst of an affluent society; when you suddenly find your tongue twisted and your speech stammering as you seek to explain to your six year old daughter why she can’t go to the public amusement park that has just been advertised on television, and see tears welling up in her eyes when she is told that Funtown is closed to colored children, and see ominous clouds of inferiority beginning to form in her little mental sky, and see her beginning to distort her personality by developing an unconscious bitterness toward white people; when you have to concoct an answer for a five year old son who is asking: “Daddy, why do white people treat colored people so mean?”; when you take across county drive and find it necessary to sleep night after night in the uncomfortable corners of your automobile because no motel will accept you; when you are humiliated day in and day out by nagging signs reading “white” and “colored”; when your first name becomes “nigger,” your middlename becomes “boy” (however old you are) and your last name becomes “John,” and your wife and mother are never given the respected title “Mrs.”; when you are harried by day and haunted by night by the fact that you are a Negro, living constantly at tiptoe stance, never quite knowing what to expect next, and are plagued with inner fears and outer resentments; when you are forever fighting a degenerating sense of “nobodiness”–then you will understand why we find it difficult to wait. There comes a time when the cup of endurance runs over, and men are no longer willing to be plunged into the abyss of despair. I hope, sirs, you can understand our legitimate and unavoidable impatience.You express a great deal of anxiety over our willingness to break laws. This is certainly a legitimate concern. Since we so diligently urge people to obey the Supreme Court’s decision of 1954 outlawing segregation in the public schools, at first glance it may seem rather paradoxical for us consciously to break laws. One may well ask: “How can you advocate breaking some laws and obeying others?” The answer lies in the fact that there are two types of laws: just and unjust. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws.Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St.Augustine hat “an unjust law is no law at all.”
Now, what is the difference between the two? How does one determine whether a law is just or unjust? A just law is a man made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law. To put it in the terms of St.Thomas Aquinas:An unjust law is a human law that is not rooted in eternal law and natural law. Any law that uplifts human personality is just. Any law that degrades human personality is unjust. All segregation statutes are unjust because segregation distorts the soul and damages the personality. It gives the segregatora false sense of superiority and the segregated a false sense of inferiority. Segregation,to use the terminology of the Jewish philosopher Martin Buber, substitutes an “I it” relationship for an “I thou”relationship and ends up relegating persons to the status of things. Hence segregation is not only politically, economically and sociologically unsound, it is morally wrong and sinful. Paul Tillich has said that sin is separation. Is not segregation an existential expression of man’s tragic separation, his awful estrangement, his terrible sinfulness? Thus it is that I can urge men to obey the 1954decision of the Supreme Court, for it is morally right; and I can urge them to disobey segregation ordinances, for they are morally wrong.
Let us consider a more concrete example of just and unjust laws. An unjust law is a code that a numerical or power majority group compels a minority group to obey but does not make binding on itself. This is difference made legal. By the same token, a just law is a code that a majority compels a minority to follow and that it is willing to follow itself. This is sameness made legal.Let me give another explanation. A law is unjust if it is inflicted on a minority that, as a result of being denied the right to vote, had no part in enacting or devising the law. Who can say that the legislature of Alabama which set up that state’s segregation laws was democratically elected? Throughout Alabama all sorts of devious methods are used to prevent Negroes from becoming registered voters, and there are some counties in which, even though Negroes constitute a majority of the population, not a single Negro is registered. Can any law enacted under such circumstances be considered democratically structured?
Sometimes a law is just on its face and unjust in its application. For instance, I have been arrested on a charge of parading without a permit. Now, there is nothing wrong in having an ordinance which requires a permit for a parade. But such an ordinance becomes unjust when it is used to maintain segregation and to deny citizens the First-Amendment privilege of peaceful assembly and protest.
I hope you are able to see the distinction I am trying to point out. In no sense do I advocate evading or defying the law, as would the rabid segregationist. That would lead to anarchy.One who breaks an unjust law must do so openly, lovingly, and with a willingness to accept the penalty. I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for law.
Of course, there is nothing new about this kind of civil disobedience. It was evidenced sublimely in the refusal of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego to obey the laws of Nebuchadnezzar, on the ground that a higher moral law was at stake. It was practiced superbly by the early Christians, who were willing to face hungry lions and the excruciating pain of chopping blocks rather than submit to certain unjust laws of the Roman Empire. To a degree, academic freedom is a reality today because Socrates practiced civil disobedience. In our own nation, the Boston Tea Party represented a massive act of civil disobedience.
We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was “legal” and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was “illegal.” It was “illegal” to aid and comfort a Jew in Hitler’s Germany. Even so, I am sure that, had I lived in Germany at the time, I would have aided and comforted my Jewish brothers. If today I lived in a Communist country where certain principles dear to the Christian faith are suppressed, I would openly advocate disobeying that country’s antireligious laws.
I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I mus confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding frompeople of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and that when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress. I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that the present tension in the South is a necessary phase of the transition from an obnoxious negative peace, in which the Negro passively accepted his unjust plight, to a substantive and positive peace, in which all men will respect the dignity and worth of human personality. Actually,we who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with all its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured.
In your statement you assert that our actions, even though peaceful, must be condemned because they precipitate violence. But is this a logical assertion? Isn’t this like condemning a robbed man because his possession of money precipitated the evil act of robbery? Isn’t this like condemning Socrates because his unswerving commitment to truth and his philosophical inquiries precipitated the act by the misguided populace in which they made him drink hemlock? Isn’t this like condemning Jesus because his unique God consciousness and never ceasing devotion to God’s will precipitated the evil act of crucifixion? We must come to see that, as the federal courts have Consistently affirmed,it is wrong to urge an individual to cease his efforts to gain his basic constitutional rights because the quest may precipitate violence. Society must protect the robbed and punish the robber.I had also hoped that the white moderate would reject the myth concerning time in relation to the struggle for freedom. I have just received a letter from a white brother in Texas. He writes: “All Christians know that the colored people will receive equal rights eventually, but it is possible that you are in too great a religious hurry. It has taken Christianity almost two thousand years to accomplish what it has. The teachings of Christ take time to come to earth.” Such an attitude stems from a tragic misconception of time, from the strangely irrational notion that there is something in the very flow of time that will inevitably cure all ills. Actually, time itself is neutral; it can be used either destructively or constructively. More and more I feel that the people of ill will have used time much more effectively than have the people of good will. We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people but for the appalling silence of the good people.Human progress never rolls in on wheels of inevitability; it comes through the tireless efforts of men willing to be co workers with God, and without this hard work, time itself becomes an ally of the forces of social stagnation. We must use time creatively, in the knowledge that the time is always ripe to do right.Now is the time to make real the promise of democracy and transform our pending national elegy into a creative psalm of brotherhood. Now is the time to lift our national policy from the quicksand of racial injustice to the solid rock of human dignity.
You speak of our activity in Birmingham as extreme. At first I was rather disappointed that fellow clergymen would see my nonviolent efforts as those of an extremist. I began thinking about the fact that I stand in the middle of two opposing forces in the Negro community. One is a force of complacency, made up in part of Negroes who, as a result of long years of oppression, are so drained of self respect and a sense of “somebodiness” that they have adjusted to segregation; and in part of a few middle-class Negroes who, because of a degree of academic and economic security and because in some ways they profit by segregation, have become insensitive to the problems of the masses. The other force is one of bitterness and hatred, and it comes perilously close to advocating violence. It is expressed in the various black nationalist groups that are springing up across the nation,the largest and best known being Elijah Muhammad’s Muslim movement. Nourished by the Negro’s frustration over the continued existence of racial discrimination, this movement is made up of people who have lost faith in America, who have absolutely repudiated Christianity, and who have concluded that the white man is an incorrigible “devil.”
I have tried to stand between these two forces, saying that we need emulate neither the”donothingism” of the complacent nor the hatred and despair of the black nationalist. For there is the more excellent way of love and nonviolent protest. I am grateful to God that, through the influence of the Negro church, the way of nonviolence became an integral part of our struggle.If this philosophy had not emerged, by now many streets of the South would, I am convinced,be flowing with blood. And I am further convinced that if our white brothers dismiss as”rabblerousers” and “outside agitators” those of us who employ nonviolent direct action, and ifthey refuse tosupport our nonviolent efforts, millions of Negroes will, out of frustration and despair,seek solace andsecurity in black nationalist ideologies–a development that would inevitably lead to afrighteningracial nightmare.
Oppressed people cannot remain oppressed forever. The yearning for freedom eventually manifests itself, and that is what has happened to the American Negro. Something within has reminded him of his birthright of freedom, and something without has reminded him that it can be gained. Consciously or unconsciously, he has been caught up by the Zeitgeist, and with his black brothers of Africa and his brown and yellow brothers of Asia, South America and the Caribbean, the United States Negro is moving with a sense of great urgency toward the promised land of racial justice. If one recognizes this vital urge that has engulfed the Negro community, one should readily understand why public demonstrations are taking place. The Negro has many pent up resentments and latent frustrations, and he must release them. So let him march; let him make prayer pilgrimages to the city hall; let him go on freedom rides -and try to understand why he must do so. If his repressedemotions are not released in nonviolent ways, they will seek expression through violence;this is not a threat but a fact of history. So I have not said to my people: “Get rid of your discontent.” Rather, I have tried to say that this normal and healthy discontent can be channeled into the creative outlet of nonviolent direct action. And now this approach is being termed extremist.But though I was initially disappointed at being categorized as an extremist, as I continued to think about the matter I gradually gained a measure of satisfaction from the label. Was not Jesus an extremist for love: “Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.” Was not Amos an extremist for justice:”Let justice roll down like waters and righteousness like an ever flowing stream.” Was not Paul an extremist for the Christian gospel: “I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.” Was not Martin Luther an extremist: “Here I stand; I cannot do otherwise, so help me God.” And John Bunyan: “I will stay in jail to the end of my days before I make a butchery of my conscience.” And Abraham Lincoln:”This nation cannot survive half slave and half free.” And Thomas Jefferson: “We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal . . .” So the question is not whether we will be extremists, but what kind of extremists we will be. Will we be extremists for hate or for love? Will we be extremists for the preservation of injustice or for the extension of justice? In that dramatic scene on Calvary’s hill three men were crucified. We must never forget that all three were crucified for the same crime–the crime of extremism. Two were extremists for immorality, and thus fell below their environment. The other, Jesus Christ, was an extremist for love, truth and goodness, and thereby rose above his environment. Perhaps the South, the nation and the world are in dire need of creative extremists.
I had hoped that the white moderate would see this need. Perhaps I was too optimistic;perhaps I expected too much. I suppose I should have realized that few members of the oppressor race can understand the deep groans and passionate yearnings of the oppressed race, and still fewer have the vision to see that injustice must be rooted out by strong, persistent and determined action. I am thankful, however, that some of our white brothers in the South have grasped the meaning of this social revolution and committed themselves to it. They are still all too few in quantity,but they are big in quality. Some -such as Ralph McGill, Lillian Smith, Harry Golden, James McBride Dabbs, Ann Bradenand, Sarah Patton Boyle–have written about our struggle in eloquent and prophetic terms.Others have marched with us down nameless streets of the South. They have languished in filthy,roach infested jails, suffering the abuse and brutality of policemen who view them as “dirty nigger-lovers.”Unlike so many of their moderate brothers and sisters, they have recognized the urgency of the moment and sensed the need for powerful “action” antidotes to combat the disease of segregation.Let me take note of my other major disappointment. I have been so greatly disappointed with the white church and its leadership. Of course, there are some notable exceptions. I amnot unmindful of the fact that each of you has taken some significant stands on this issue. I commend you, Reverend Stallings, for your Christian stand on this past Sunday, in welcoming Negroes to your worship serviceon a nonsegregated basis. I commend the Catholic leaders of this state for integrating Spring Hill College several years ago.
But despite these notable exceptions, I must honestly reiterate that I have been disappointed with the church. I do not say this as one of those negative critics who can always find something wrong with the church. I say this as a minister of the gospel, who loves the church; whowas nurtured in its bosom; who has been sustained by its spiritual blessings and who will remain true to it as long as the cord of life shall lengthen.
When I was suddenly catapulted into the leadership of the bus protest in Montgomery, Alabama, a few years ago, I felt we would be supported by the white church. I felt that the white ministers, priests and rabbis of the South would be among our strongest allies. Instead,some have been outright opponents, refusing to understand the freedom movement and misrepresenting its leaders; all too many others have been more cautious than courageous and have remained silent behind the anesthetizing security of stained glass windows.
In spite of my shattered dreams, I came to Birmingham with the hope that the white religious leadership of this community would see the justice of our cause and, with deep moral concern, would serve as the channel through which our just grievances could reach the power structure. I had hoped that each of you would understand. But again I have been disappointed.
I have heard numerous southern religious leaders admonish their worshipers to comply with a desegregation decision because it is the law, but I have longed to hear white ministers declare:”Follow this decree because integration is morally right and because the Negro is your brother.” In the midst of blatant injustices inflicted upon the Negro, I have watched white churchmen stand on the sideline and mouth pious irrelevancies and sanctimonious trivialities. In the midst of a mighty struggle to rid our nation of racial and economic injustice, I have heard many ministers say: “Those are social issues, with which the gospel has no real concern.” And I have watched many churches commit them selves to a completely other worldly religion which makes a strange, un-Biblical distinction between body and soul, between the sacred and the secular.
I have traveled the length and breadth of Alabama, Mississippi and all the other southern states. On sweltering summer days and crisp autumn mornings I have looked at the South’s beautiful churches with their lofty spires pointing heavenward. I have beheld the impressiveoutlines of her massive religious education buildings. Over and over I have found myself asking: “What kind of people worship here? Who is their God? Where were their voices when the lips of Governor Barnett dripped with words of interposition and nullification? Where were they when Governor Wallace gave a clarion call for defiance and hatred? Where were their voices of support when bruised and weary Negro men and women decided to rise from the dark dungeons of complacency to the bright hills of creative protest?”
Yes, these questions are still in my mind. In deep disappointment I have wept over the laxity of the church. But be assured that my tears have been tears of love. There can be no deep disappointment where there is not deep love. Yes, I love the church. How could I do otherwise? I am in the rather unique position of being the son, the grandson and the great grandson of preachers. Yes, I see the church as the body of Christ. But, oh! How we have blemished and scarred that body through social neglect and through fear of being nonconformists.
There was a time when the church was very powerful–in the time when the early Christians rejoiced at being deemed worthy to suffer for what they believed. In those days the church was not merely a thermometer that recorded the ideas and principles of popular opinion; it was at her most at that transformed the mores of society. Whenever the early Christians entered a town, the people in power became disturbed and immediately sought to convict the Christians for being”disturbers of the peace” and “outside agitators.”‘ But the Christians pressed on, in the conviction that they were “a colony of heaven,” called to obey God rather than man. Small in number, they were big in commitment. They were too God-intoxicated to be “astronomically intimidated.” By their effort and example they brought an end to such ancient evils as infanticide and gladiatorial contests.Things are different now. So often the contemporary church is a weak, ineffectual voice with an uncertain sound. So often it is an arch defender of the status quo. Far from being disturbed by the presence of the church, the power structure of the average community is consoled by the church’s silent–and often even vocal–sanction of things as they are.
But the judgment of God is upon the church as never before. If today’s church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust.
Perhaps I have once again been too optimistic. Is organized religion too inextricably bound to the status quo to save our nation and the world? Perhaps I must turn my faith to the inner spiritual church, the church within the church, as the true ekklesia and the hope of the world. Butagain I amthankful to God that some noble souls from the ranks of organized religion have broken loose from the paralyzing chains of conformity and joined us as active partners in the struggle for freedom. They have left their secure congregations and walked the streets of Albany, Georgia, with us.They have gone down the highways of the South on tortuous rides for freedom. Yes, they have gone tojail withus. Some have been dismissed from their churches, have lost the support of their bishops and fellow ministers. But they have acted in the faith that right defeated is stronger than evil triumphant. Their witness has been the spiritual salt that has preserved the true meaning of the gospel in these troubled times. They have carved a tunnel of hope through the dark mountain of disappointment. I hope the church as a whole will meet the challenge of this decisive hour. But even if the church does not come to the aid of justice, I have no despair about the future. I have no fear about the outcome of our struggle in Birmingham, even if our motives are at present misunderstood.We will reach the goal of freedom in Birmingham and all over the nation, because the goal of America is freedom. Abused and scorned though we may be, our destiny is tied up with America’s destiny. Before the pilgrims landed at Plymouth, we were here. Before the pen of Jefferson etched the majestic words of the Declaration of Independence across the pages of history, we were here. For more than two centuries our forebears labored in this country without wages; they made cotton king; they built the homes of their masters while suffering gross injustice and shameful humiliation -and yet out of a bottomless vitality they continued to thrive and develop. If the inexpressible crueltiesof slavery could not stop us, the opposition we now face will surely fail. We will win our freedom because the sacred heritage of our nation and the eternal will of God are embodied in our echoing demands. Before closing I feel impelled to mention one other point in your statement that has troubled me profoundly. You warmly commended the Birmingham police force for keeping “order” and”preventing violence.” I doubt that you would have so warmly commended the police force if you had seen its dogs sinking their teeth into unarmed, nonviolent Negroes. I doubt that you would so quickly commend the policemen if you were to observe their ugly and inhumane treatment of Negroes here in the city jail; if you were to watch them push and curse old Negro women and young Negro girls; if you were to see them slap and kick old Negro men and young boys; if you were to observe them, as they did on two occasions, refuse to give us food because we wanted to sing our grace together. I cannot join you in your praise of the Birmingham police department.
It is true that the police have exercised a degree of discipline in handling the demonstrators. In this sense they have conducted themselves rather “nonviolently” in public. But for what purpose? To preserve the evil system of segregation. Over the past few years I have consistently preached that nonviolence demands that the means we use must be as pure as the ends we seek. I have tried to make clear that it is wrong to use immoral means to attain moral ends. But now I must affirm that it is just as wrong, or perhaps even more so, to use moral means to preserve immoral ends. Perhaps Mr.Connor and his policemen have been rather nonviolent in public, as was Chief Pritchett in Albany,Georgia, but they have used the moral means of nonviolence to maintain the immoral end of racial injustice. As T. S. Eliot has said: “The last temptation is the greatest treason: To do the right deed for the wrong reason.”
I wish you had commended the Negro sit inners and demonstrators of Birmingham for their sublime courage, their willingness to suffer and their amazing discipline in the midst of great provocation. One day the South will recognize its real heroes. They will be the James Merediths, with the noble sense of purpose that enables them to face jeering and hostile mobs, and with the agonizing loneliness that characterizes the life of the pioneer. They will be old, oppressed, battered Negro women, symbolized in a seventy two year old woman in Montgomery, Alabama, who rose up with a sense of dignity and with her people decided not to ride segregated buses, and who responded with ungrammatical profundity to one who inquired about her weariness: “My feets is tired,but my soul is at rest.” They will be the young high school and college students, the young ministers of the gospel and a host of their elders, courageously and nonviolently sitting in at lunch counters and willingly going to jail for conscience’ sake. One day the South will know that when these disinherited children of God sat down at lunch counters, they were in reality standing up for what is best in the American dream and for the most sacred values in our Judaeo Christian heritage, thereby bringing our nation back to those great wells of democracy which were dug deep by the founding fathers in their formulation of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.
Never before have I written so long a letter. I’m afraid it is much too long to take your precious time. I can assure you that it would have been much shorter if I had been writing from a comfortable desk, but what else can one do when he is alone in a narrow jail cell, other than write long letters,think long thoughts and pray long prayers?
If I have said anything in this letter that overstates the truth and indicates an unreasonable impatience, I beg you to forgive me. If I have said anything that understates the truth and indicates my having a patience that allows me to settle for anything less than brotherhood, I beg God to forgiveme.
I hope this letter finds you strong in the faith. I also hope that circumstances will soon make it possible for me to meet each of you, not as an integrationist or a civil-rights leader but as a fellow clergyman and a Christian brother. Let us all hope that the dark clouds of racial prejudice will soon pass away and the deep fog of misunderstanding will be lifted from our fear drenched communities, and in some not too distant tomorrow the radiant stars of love and brotherhood will shine over our great nation with all their scintillating beauty.
Yours for the cause of Peace and Brotherhood, Martin Luther King, Jr.
King, Martin Luther Jr.”
Only Three Days to go.
God Help Us All
Bee Man Dave
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Greetings and Salutations;
Today is January 16, 2017, a day that commemorates the life and actions of Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. As he was a man of Peace, and contemplation, I thought it right to take a moment, sit back, and remember his efforts and beliefs. To ask myself “How can I apply his lessons about dealing with oppression, racism and oppression to the world today?” The past few months have, alas, been some of the most chaotic and unpleasant in the past 100 years of American History. In spite of the chaos and Evil of the two World Wars that this period covers, which were bad enough, This past year has seen more polarization and division between the Citizens since the Civil War, in the 1860s.
The Civil Rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s was a pivotal moment in American History. Some of us are old enough to have lived through that time…and remember the changes it brought. As with ALL huge changes in society, it did not come without pain, suffering and Sacrifice. However, throughout, Dr. King preached that Peace was stronger than War. That it was stronger than Violence. That Peace was stronger than than Hate, and, that the only way, we could progress as a society was to embrace that Peace, and use it as our strength and shield to push through the attacks of Evil. What was the result of this view? So many things that I cannot record them here, today.
Dr. King preached Non-Violence in all his efforts. However, violence came to him and others anyway. He, John Lewis, Bernie Sanders and many other leaders and participants in the Civil Rights movement saw their peaceful marches, protests, and publicity met with violence. After walking one more mile with tired, hurting feet they were set upon by Law Enforcement officers armed with dogs and fire hoses; They were beaten and arrested time and time again; In 1964, three Civil Right’s Workers were murdered in Mississippi – Michael Schwerner and Andrew Goodman, both white New Yorkers, had traveled to heavily segregated Mississippi in 1964 to help organize civil rights efforts on behalf of the Congress of Racial Equality (CORE). The third man, James Chaney, was a local African American man who had joined CORE in 1963;
Dr. King was assassinated outside a Memphis Motel on April 4, 1968. HOWEVER, after suffering physical abuse at the hands of those same Public Servants and pushing through it; Society was changed. Peace had won a huge battle over Hatred. I hope we all remember the Civil Rights Legislation that was put into the Legal Fabric of our society, that banned the old practices of segregation, oppression, and abusive treatment of these Citizens, and what it cost to create it.
These changes touched almost everyone in the country, and in some cases, bringing both positive and negative changes. I, for example, had a moment of surprise that I recall today as clearly as the day it happened.
When I was growing up, we lived in what was a fairly rural suburb of Knoxville, TN. There were few resources within walking distance, and my mother did not drive. So, on a regular basis, mother and I (and after a while, my younger sister) would walk to the end of the driveway, which was on a bus route, and ride the bus into downtown Knoxville. There, we would wander around doing shopping and such. There was a Woolworth’s on the main drag, which, of course, had that famous lunch counter, and on rare occasions, I would get the treat of mother taking me to have Lunch at Woolworth’s.
While I do not recall the exact date – it was around 1964 – my mother, I, and my baby sister went into town, and went into Woolworth’s for lunch. That day, I saw something there I had never seen. At one end of the counter, there was a Black family, sitting at the Counter, and waiting for service! They had a number of empty seats between them and the White folks who were eating at the counter, and NO one was acknowledging the other group. It was not Lynching Tense, but, there was some tension there, that even I, at the age of 9 or so, picked up.
Now, my parents were both well educated and had some experience with the world, so they had reared us to look upon everyone as an equal… They might LOOK at bit different, but, inside, where it counted, there was no difference between me and them. As a Lutheran, this was also a lesson re-enforced by the church. So, we just hiked up to the bar, got seats, and ordered a bit of lunch. The only thing I really remember of the food was the chocolate Milkshake. They had some of the best milkshakes in the area at that Lunch Counter, so it was quite a treat to get to eat one (even if I DID have to share a few spoonfuls with my little sister!).
Well, the Black family had been sitting there for a while, I think, when we came in, and they were ignored while our order was taken and cooked up. However, while our food was coming, a waitress did take their order, and the staff was working on it when we left. I have to say that, even at that young age, I thought it unfair that this family, who was, really, no different from my family, was being treated so poorly. However, the fact that seeing this happening in front of me also really affected my way of looking at the world. For me, it was a good change. It taught me that “equality of all citizens” was not just a collection of meaningless words, but, was an important part of our society.
In Knoxville, there were still places which had not bothered to take the “Coloreds Only”/”Whites Only” signs down from near water fountains and public restrooms up into the early 1970s. Of course by then, no one paid a bit of attention to them…so they might have lost their power, but, they remained a painful reminder of what used to be. I had hoped that they would be enough of a reminder that succeeding generations of parents would teach their children tolerance and Christian Love for all. Alas, as the past year or so has shown us, Americans have not really embraced that evolutionary thought as much as we should have.
Rev King was a powerful voice for that change. His words were infused with the Power of Righteousness, and moved many to take action. To Stand Up and not condone, or tolerate oppression and hate in our hearts or our society. Today, alas, America is terribly divided. The last campaign brought more Evil into our world than was sane, and while it worked well, to get the donald elected to the Office of the President, it was a short-sighted and foolish effort. To me, it was a case of dumping gasoline throughout a house, then lighting a match while standing in the center of it because one wants to remodel it. This will guarantee that a fresh, new, house will be built…but the question is…will the arsonist survive to see it? The Question is…Was this the BEST or most efficient way to go about the changes? The problem I see with burning the house down is that there is often a lot of very good things that are in that house and a part of it. Those things are destroyed, never to be replaced, by simple destruction. Dr. King never advocated the total destruction of society! He advocated for CHANGE. For Improvement. For taking one bad aspect of our society at a time, and finding how to remove and replace it with something good.
As he said in his most famous address to the citizens, delivered 28 August 1963, at the Lincoln Memorial, Washington D.C…”I Have A Dream…”. Today, alas, I fear that Dr King’s dream has been dimmed by greed, political intrigue, and hatred. It is up to each of us to take up the banner, Walk the Walk, and not allow the advances that Dr. King, John Lewis, Bernie Sanders, and many, many others won. Some of these brave Citizens gave their blood to the cause…Some, like Dr. King, gave their lives. Honor their sacrifices and walk the path of equality and self-knowledge that they progressed us on.
Let me leave you with the words of one of the 100 best speeches ever given in America: (Here is a LINK that includes the audio of this speech and some reference information that is of interest)
“I am happy to join with you today in what will go down in history as the greatest demonstration for freedom in the history of our nation.
Five score years ago, a great American, in whose symbolic shadow west and today, signed the Emancipation Proclamation. This momentous decree came as a great beacon light of hope to millions of Negro slaves who had been seared in the flames ofwithering injustice. It came as a joyous daybreak to end the long night of their captivity.
But one hundred years later, the Negro still is not free. One hundred years later, the life of the Negro is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination. One hundred years later, the Negro lives on a lonely island of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. One hundred years later, the Negro is still languished in the corners of American society and finds himself an exile in his own land. And so we’ve come here today to dramatize a shameful condition.
In a sense we’ve come to our nation’s capital to cash a check.When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men, yes, black men as well as white men, would be guaranteed the “unalienable Rights” of “Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” It is obvious today that America has defaulted on this promissory note, inso far as her citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, America has given the Negro people a bad check, a check which has come back marked”insufficient funds.”
But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this nation. And so, we’ve come to cash this check, a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice.
We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind America of the fierce urgency of Now. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. Now is the time to make real the promises of democracy. Now is the time to rise from the dark and desolate valley of segregation to the sunlit path of racial justice. Now is the time to lift our nation from the quicksands of racial injustice to the solid rock of brotherhood. Now is the time to make justice a reality for all of God’s children.
It would be fatal for the nation to overlook the urgency of the moment. This sweltering summer of the Negro’s legitimate discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality. Nineteen sixty-three is not an end, but a beginning. And those who hope that the Negro needed to blow off steam and will now be content will have a rude awakening if the nation returns to business as usual. And there will be neither rest nor tranquility in America until the Negro is granted his citizenship rights. The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of our nation until the bright day of justice emerges.
But there is something that I must say to my people, who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice: In the process of gaining our rightful place, we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again, we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force.
The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community must not lead us to a distrust of all white people, for many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny. And they have come to realize that their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom.
We cannot walk alone.
And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall always march ahead.
We cannot turn back.
There are those who are asking the devotees of civil rights,”When will you be satisfied?” We can never be satisfied as long as the Negro is the victim of the unspeakable horrors of police brutality. We can never be satisfied as long as our bodies, heavy with the fatigue of travel, cannot gain lodging in the motels of the highways and the hotels of the cities. We cannot be satisfied as long as the negro’s basic mobility is from a smaller ghetto to a larger one. We can never be satisfied as long as our children are stripped of their self-hood and robbed of their dignity by signs stating: “For Whites Only.” We cannot be satisfied as long as a Negro in Mississippi cannot vote and a Negro in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until “justice rolls down like waters, and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
I am not unmindful that some of you have come here out of great trials and tribulations. Some of you have come fresh from narrow jail cells. And some of youhave come from areas where your quest — quest for freedom left you battered by the storms of persecution and staggered by the winds of police brutality. You have been the veterans of creative suffering. Continue to work with the faith that unearned suffering is redemptive. Go back to Mississippi, go back to Alabama, go back to South Carolina, go back to Georgia,go back to Louisiana, go back to the slums and ghettos of our northern cities, knowing that somehow this situation can and will be changed.
Let us not wallow in the valley of despair, I say to you today, my friends.
And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.
I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal.”
I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.
I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
I have a dream today!
I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of “interposition” and “nullification” — one day right there in Alabama little black boys and blackgirls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers.
I have a dream today!
I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, and everyhill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight; “and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed and all fleshshall see it together.”
This is our hope, and this is the faith that I go back to the South with.
With this faith, we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith, we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith, we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day.
And this will be the day — this will be the day when all of God’s children will be able to sing with new meaning:
My country ’tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing.
Land where my fathers died, land of the Pilgrim’s pride,
From every mountainside, let freedom ring!
And if America is to be a great nation, this must become true.
And so let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire.
Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York.
Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies ofPennsylvania.
Let freedom ring from the snow-capped Rockies of Colorado.
Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of California.
But not only that:
Let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia.
Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee.
Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill of Mississippi.
From every mountainside, let freedom ring.
And when this happens, and when we allow freedom ring,when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city,we will be able to speed up that day when all of God’s children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual:
Free at last! Free at last!
Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!“
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- SOME folks simply call me a name (or twelve), make snarky remarks about me and my opinions, and spout right-wing lies from Agenda-Driven websites to “prove” their point. These are the folks that I look at and think…”Wow, that is a Fear Driven Life there.” When push comes to shove they have not moved one step beyond the level of social development that existed when Homo Sapiens appeared on the Earth. They are instinctively Tribal, and react to people within the tribe as if they were the best of friends, but, look at anyone OUTSIDE the tribe as an enemy and a danger…to be driven off, or avoided. They are so fixed in their views of reality that they cannot conceive of anyone that is not just like them as having humanity; of having a life and opinions that is just as valid as their own; or have anything worth contributing to a conversation. It has been my experience that they prefer to belittle a person by saying “Get a JOB” or “now that Our Boy is in office, you parasites are not going to get free things from the government any more.” Of course, both these comments are without Merit, as a vast majority of Liberal and Progressive folks not only have jobs, they show up to them and do the best that they can every day – only to see their financial well-being being eroded away by the law changes done by a Right-Wing Congress. As for the second point…All the Progressives and Liberals I know agree that people should not be wards of the state. However, from the Liberal perspective, the way to deal with the problem is to recognize the worth of every person, and, if they are down on their luck, to do what is necessary to support them and help them make their way back to being a productive member of society. While there are a percentage of folks in the System that are eking out a living by working that system, a vast majority of the folks getting aid would rather have a real job, as they realize it provides them with far more resources than being a client of the Department of Human Services can ever provide. Be that as it may, this group tend to be the people that I find ways to eliminate from my life. On Social Media, I will block them. In Real Life, I will slowly cut back on the times we interact, until it becomes either never, or less than once a year.
- SOME deflect, claiming that he did not mean what he said, or, making attacks on their opponents that are off topic. They too do not discuss well, as their beliefs enable them to dismiss my concerns as meaningless. It is very hard to discuss, on a civil level, touchy subjects like this when the person is rejecting the FACTS they are presented with the claims that it is “Fake News”, or “there is no proof that is true”, or “A LOT of people disagree with these facts”. I find this last response both hilarious and irritating. It is truly funny because it is so without merit it causes the speaker to look as ignorant as a new-born baby. To beat the dead horse a moment longer…JUST because “a lot of people” have this opinion does NOT turn it into a fact. It is true that, during the Salem Witch trials in 1692-1693, a VAST majority of the population believed that there were actual Witches in the world, who could use mystical powers to bring Evil and injury to another person’s life. In the 1930s-1940s, many people living under the Third Reich believed that Jews were subhuman, evil people that were responsible for putting up barriers to their success. They believed in the concept of “Racial Purity” and that it was “Evil” to dilute their blood with the blood of other races. The fact that a lot of people believed (and, alas, STILL Believe) this does not magically make it a fact.
- SOME are single issue voters. For example, I have talked with people whose hot buttons range from abortion and woman’s rights, to LGBTQ issues, to Healthcare Costs, to Work issues.
- Many of them, when push came to shove, said that they thought the donald would push their agenda where HRC held a different stance. They were able to ignore all the other ugliness and chaos in the donald’s life and history. I.E. Willful blindness. I, for one, believe that the failure of the Educational System in America is partly to blame for this. Schools should have the goals of teaching kids the basic tools of living – Critical Thinking skills, reading, writing, Math, etc. The schools should present the students with the data they need to become well-rounded and educated enough to deal with the world. This includes a more objective presentation of History, Human Sexuality, Number theory, and vocabulary. Alas, for the past decades the school’s roll in doing this has been undercut by a lot of factors. One of the BIG things undercutting this important task is, in my view, Religion. As time has passed, the Religious community in America has become more entrenched and divided by their own agenda. My view is that God does exist (Read Edward Abbott’s “Flatland” for a simple analogue for my view on how that works), and, that It is far too complex for any single path to lead to It. In spite of being raised in the Missouri Synod Lutheran Church, I have had a very broad view of other religions. I have never believed that ONE denomination has “THE Only Answer and Way To GOD”. I do have the opinion that, as it says in the Bible, “now we see through the glass, Darkly” so, some philosophical paths are rather more complicated and stray further away from the shortest path to understanding and Connection. However, alas, in the past decades the Balkanization of the Religious Community has produced a lot of parents who believe that their kids will be forever damned if they learn anything except what their interpretation of the Bible supports. These folks have fought to have school Curricula changed to either remove or re-word topics that conflict with their beliefs, or, in an increasing number of cases, they Home School their kids, absolutely controlling what they learn.
- SOME of the voters actually do prefer the platform and plans put forth by the Republican Party over the goals of the Democratic Party. Again, a complicated problem. I was a strong Republican when I was a new voter. By the by, I am talking about during the 1960s and 1970s. My first Vote was for Richard Nixon, to elect him to his second term. My parents were in the Republican Corner as in their minds (and mine, at the time), the Republican Party expressed the view of reality that I found most appealing. The Party was Conservative in that it was not for radical changes that happened quickly. Change would happen under that Party, but, it would have the speed of molasses in Winter. The Platform preached the gospel of Self-reliance – Not depending on the Government to be the Nanny State. The Federal Government should do the tasks it had to do to keep the country running, but keep its nose out of the lives of individual Citizens. The Party left that task to the local governments! It pushed the “Horatio Alger Jr. Story of America” where it was easy for a person starting in poverty, with nothing to work hard and be frugal, and end up a very rich and powerful person, who could relax and live on their investments and savings. As we all realize though, that even in those days, this was an idyllic goal, that was hard to reach for White Males, and nearly impossible to even see for people of color. One thing about that time, though…for a lot of people, that 20 year period between 1950 and 1970 DID provide a lot of folks with the fulfillment of that dream. Today, though, the world has changed a LOT. The economy and financial life of most Americans are in shambles. Over the past 20 years or so Management has apparently picked up and are clinging to the idea that Profit for themselves and investors is the God to be Worshiped, and anything that might interfere with that (such as paying a living wage, treating employees well, slow steady growth, etc) are to be avoided. The bottom line these days is that for a person working in a company, they are likely limited in their advancement, both in position and salary. While there are a few “mail room to CEO” stories still around, they are, indeed, few and far between. Today, for most people, the only way to get increased benefits or salary is to look around and find a new job. Of course the massive economic collapse of 2008/2009 has even closed off that avenue of escape. Jobs have been scarce for a number of reasons, including the waves created by that crash, so often, moving has been impossible. Over the years, I, as have most of my siblings, have moved to the Democratic Party, both from an ethical point, and a fiscal responsibility point. For decades now, post Nixon, the general trend is that the Republicans get into office, and provide HUGE tax cuts (mostly for the upper class with all the money) and added huge spending programs in the belief that their tax cuts will produce more revenue, as they will encourage the rich to expand their businesses, and hire more people. This, by the by, has been a pipe dream from Reagan on, and has left us with an unimaginably large debt that the country owes, and deficit that has been building that debt like a fire hose spraying gasoline on a skyscraper fire. The Democrats, when they take office, have taken steps to bring down the deficit, and reduce the debt. They have done this by raising taxes on the people with the most money (in general), and finding ways to make the government run more efficiently. Add to that, the social responsibility that the Progressives in the Democratic Party feel towards all citizens, and their attempts to improve life for ALL citizens, made it a trivial choice.
- Finally, there is the painfully large percentage of his supporters who, as far as I can tell, just do not like, or are frightened by, a strong, intelligent, well-educated WOMAN having taking the office. I have to Admit that this puzzles me a bit, but I do understand enough about the human mind and its workings that I know that there can be subconscious fears and uncertainties that can motivate actions that seem odd. Do these voters really just hate their mothers? Were they made to look like a fool by another, intelligent, strong, well-educated woman? Do they just feel inadequate and threatened by folks that are better at something than they are? All or some are, I think factors in their prejudiced thoughts.
- I am also aware (painfully so) of the large percentage of Americans who were qualified to vote, but, for a variety of reasons, did not bother to take advantage of the many opportunities to vote.
- Some, alas, just were too lazy or distracted to vote.
- A goodly number of them were so disgusted by the several candidates offered, and disillusioned by the electoral system, that they did not even make the effort.
- Over the past few decades, the Republicans have worked very hard to make it harder to vote, focusing their attention on those folks that they believe would not support them.
- They have re-drawn Congressional districts, gerrymandering (or “henrymandering” as David O. Stewart says in this edition of “Your Weekly Constitutional”) them to ensure that a given district has such a majority of their locked in voters as to make it impossible for any other candidate to have a chance.
- There is the focus on making the issue of “Voter ID” a big talking point, and using that to add layers of regulations and requirements to obtain a voter ID. The CLAIM to that they are trying to cut down on voter fraud. The actual effect has been that it has made it much harder for ANYONE (who were not a well-off, W.A.S.P.) to get a valid ID to vote
- There has been a lot of movement towards cutting back on the number of polling places, the amount of time open, and their locations. The claim is because they are too expensive. However, from the information about where the cuts happen, and where the remaining polls are sited, it seems rather more likely that it is to make sure those annoying dissenters unable to vote
- There are a proliferation of rules that made it easier to challenge the validity of a person’s vote..which can change the outcome of an election easily.
- All of these actions, mostly by the Right Wing, has huge numbers of voters being disenfranchised, silencing the voices of many American Citizens by making it impossible for them to vote.
- Email or call them to let them know your objection or support for the item of interest. When you do this, be SURE to follow these guidelines:
- Use this tool – https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members to track down YOUR Representatives.
- Now…to help change your government and what it is doing, there are some simple things to do.
- I have, in the past decades, communicated with my Federal Representatives on occasion. However, since the Election and the terrible vision for the future that it brings, I have found that I have been shooting off Emails to them at least once a day. I realized, finally that anyone that tells you that a communication from you as a Constituent, to your Representative is a waste of time, because “The politicians only pay attention to the lobbyists that write them the big checks”, is lying to you. They are likely fearful that if you DO contact your Representative, it will destroy their chances for making a big score off the Government.
- I have been urging people to vote, and arguing to convince them that their vote matters for decades. I can relate to them, because after Nixon, it was very hard to get my enthusiasm up and believe that my vote meant something. I spent too many years simply ignoring the elections (other than to curse at them when coverage of the events of the day interfered with a television show I particularly enjoyed watching) I finally came to the realization that even if the issue or person I voted for did not take the day, my vote was still vital. By voting, I was communicating directly with the Elected Officials that could screw up my life. In cases where the issue or candidate I supported WON, I could say “Hey…you have a network of support out here that heard you, and like what you are offering” In the cases where the issue or candidate I supported LOST, I was still saying to those Elected Officials “Ok, you have taken this battle..but look at the results of this election. There were a LOT of people who disagreed with you. You are their Representative too, so you need to not blow off their existence, but need to find a compromise that will not leave your opponents out in the cold.” As an example of this…the donald and many Republicans are crowing about a “mandate” they have from Americans to implement the changes to the laws they want to do. They are, bluntly, lying through their teeth. The donald barely squeaked through the Electoral College to take the office (and I discuss some issues I have with that in Previous Posts). As the counts were halted by order from the politicians, Hillary Clinton had gotten a solid 2.9 MILLION more popular votes than the donald. For the Republicans to claim that they have a “Mandate” under these circumstances is nothing more than the ravings of a delusion madman.
- Be Clear about what you are talking about.
- Do not write a lengthy, emotional rant. Be polite, and simply tell them whether you support or oppose the issue, and give them a single reason why you feel that way.
- Repeat as necessary.
- CLING to the basic truth that “All that Evil needs to succeed is for good people to do nothing” and use that as motivation.
Your Elected officials pay attention when 10,000 emails show up. They pay attention when thousands of constituents call them up. Why? Well, it is fairly simple. They like their jobs! They know that the folks that are contacting them are the voters that care and are paying attention to what they are doing. They are also the people that can vote for someone else if they are sufficiently unhappy with the job the incumbent is doing.
Politicians might ignore a petition with 10,000 signatures, but, 10,000 emails, phone calls, or snail mail notes make a big impact and will get their attention.
- Talk to your friends and family about issues. Again, as above, be polite, ready to listen, and respond with reasonable facts and not name calling or dismissive, snarky comments. Think about your values, and understand why you believe those values. That way, you can make a reasonable argument in trying to get them to vote with you.
- As a part of the need for voting which I mentioned in item #1in he first section, make sure that you know when elections will be held. Take a little time to look at the candidates, and understand their positions on issues. This will help with item #1 in this section. If you understand who is advocating what, you can do a much better job of discussing the issues and make better arguments for who (or what) to vote for.
- When Election Day approaches, touch base with the people you know. Find out if they are going to vote. If not, then urge them to do so. Offer to get them to the polls if there are transportation issues. If there are issues with getting correct registration, then, either help that neighbor to get their registration run through, or help organize a bus to take a group in. These are not big things, but, they will help cut down on the percentage of voters that did not cast a vote in the 2016 elections, and that will be VERY good for Democracy.
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Greetings and Salutations;
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Greetings and Salutations;
ARTHUR SULZBERGER Jr., publisher of The New York Times: Thank you very much forjoining us. And I want to reaffirm this is on the record.
DONALD J. TRUMP, President-elect of the United States: O.K.
SULZBERGER:All right, so we’re clear. We had a very nice meeting in the
Churchill Room. You’re a Churchill fan, I hear?
TRUMP: I am, I am.
There’s a photo of the great man behind you.
TRUMP: There was a big thing about the bust that was removed out of the Oval
SULZBERGER: I heard you’re thinking of putting it back.
TRUMP: I am, indeed. I am.
SULZBERGER: Wonderful. So we’ve got a good collection here from our newsroom and editorial and our columnists. I just want to say we had a good, quiet, but useful and well-meaning conversation in there. So I appreciate that very much.
TRUMP: I appreciate it, too.
SULZBERGER: I thought maybe I’d start this off by asking if you have anything you would like to start this off with before we move to the easiest questions you’re going to get this administration.
TRUMP: O.K. Well, I just appreciate the meeting and I have great respect for The New York Times. Tremendous respect. It’s very special. Always has been very special. I think I’ve been treated very rough. It’s well out there that I’ve been treated extremely unfairly in a sense, in a true sense. I wouldn’t only complain about The Times. I would say The Times was about the roughest of all. You could make the case The Washington Post was bad, but every once in a while I’d actually get a good article. Not often, Dean, but every once in awhile.
Look, I have great respect for The Times, and I’d like to turn it around. I think it would make the job I am doing much easier. We’re working very hard. We have great people coming in. I think you’ll be very impressed with the names. We’ll be announcing some very shortly.
Everybody wanted to do this. People are giving up tremendous careers in order to be subject to you folks and subject to a lot of other folks. But they’re giving up a lot. I mean some are giving up tremendous businesses in order to sit for four or maybe eight or whatever the period of time is. But I think we’re going to see some tremendous talent, tremendous talent coming in. We have many people for every job. I mean no matter what the job is, we have many incredible people. I think, Reince, you can sort of just confirm that. The quality of the people is very good.
REINCE PRIEBUS, Mr. Trump’s choice for chief of staff: [inaudible]
TRUMP: We’re trying very hard to get the best people. Not necessarily people that will be the most politically correct people, because that hasn’t been working. So we have really experts in the field. Some are known and some are not known, but they’re known within their field as being the best. That’s very important to me.
You know, I’ve been given a great honor. It’s been very tough. It’s been 18 months of brutality in a true sense, but we won it. We won it pretty big. The final numbers are coming out. Or I guess they’re coming out. Michigan’s just being confirmed. But the numbers are coming out far beyond what anybody’s wildest expectation was. I don’t know if it was us, I mean, we were seeing the kind of crowds and kind of, everything, the kind of enthusiasm we were getting from the people.
As you probably know, I did many, many speeches that last four-week period. I was just telling Arthur that I went around and did speeches in the pretty much 11 different places, that were, the massive crowds we were getting. If we had a stadium that held — and most of you, many of you were there — that held 20,000 people, we’d have 15,000 people outside that couldn’t get in.
So we came up with a good system — we put up the big screens outside with a very good loudspeaker system and very few people left. I would do, during the last month, two or three a day. That’s a lot. Because that’s not easy when you have big crowds. Those speeches, that’s not an easy way of life, doing three a day. Then I said the last two days, I want to do six and seven. And I’m not sure anybody has ever done that. But we did six and we did seven and the last one ended at 1 o’clock in the morning in Michigan.
And we had 31,000 people, 17,000 or 18,000 inside and the rest outside. This massive place in Grand Rapids, I guess. And it was an incredible thing. And I left saying: ‘How do we lose Michigan? I don’t think we can lose Michigan.’
And the reason I did that, it was set up only a little while before — because we heard that day that Hillary was hearing that they’re going to lose Michigan, which hasn’t been lost in 38 years. Or something. But 38 years. And they didn’t want to lose Michigan. So they went out along with President Obama and Michelle, Bill and Hillary, they went to Michigan late that, sort of late afternoon and I said, ‘Let’s go to Michigan.’
It wasn’t on the schedule. So I finished up in New Hampshire and at 10 o’clock I went to Michigan. We got there at 12 o’clock. We started speaking around 12:45, actually, and we had 31,000 people and I said, really, I mean, there are things happening. But we saw it everywhere.
So we felt very good. we had great numbers. And we thought we’re going to win. We thought we were going to win Florida. We thought we were going to win North Carolina. We did easily, pretty easily. We thought strongly we were going to win Pennsylvania. The problem is nobody had won it and it was known, as you know, the great state that always got away. Every Republican thought they were going to win Pennsylvania for 38
years and they just couldn’t win it.
And I thought we were going to win it. And we won it, we won it, you know, relatively easily, we won it by a number of points. Florida we won by 180,000 — was that the number, 180?
TRUMP: More than 180,000 voted, and votes are still coming in from the military, which we are getting about 85 percent of. So we won that by a lot of votes and, you know, we had a great victory. We had a great victory. I think it would have been easier because I see every once in awhile somebody says, ‘Well, the popular vote.’ Well, the popular vote would have been a lot easier, but it’s a whole different campaign. I would have been in California, I would have been in Texas, Florida and New York, and we wouldn’t have gone anywhere else. Which is, I mean I’d rather do the popular vote from the standpoint — I’d think we’d do actually as well or better — it’s a whole different campaign. It’s like, if you’re a golfer, it’s like match play versus stroke play. It’s a whole different game.
But I think the popular vote would have been easier in a true sense because you’d go to a few places. I think that’s the genius of the Electoral College. I was never a fan of the Electoral College until now.
SULZBERGER: Until now.
TRUMP: Until now. I guess now I like it for two reasons. What it does do is it gets you out to see states that you’ll never see otherwise. It’s very interesting. Like Maine. I went to Maine four times. I went to Maine 2 for one, because everybody was saying you can get to 269 but there is no path to 270. We learned that was false because we ended up with what, three-something.
PRIEBUS: I’ve got to get, we’ve got to get Michigan in.
TRUMP: But there is no path to 270, you have to get the one in Maine, so we kept going back to Maine and we did get the one in Maine. We kept going to Maine 2, and we went to a lot of states that you wouldn’t spend a lot of time in and it does get you — we actually went to about 22 states, whereas if you’re going for popular vote, you’d probably go to four, or three, it could be three. You wouldn’t leave New York. You’d stay in New York and you’d stay in California. So there’s a certain genius about it. And I like it either way. But it’s sort of interesting.
But we had an amazing period of time. I got to know the country, we have a great country, we’re a great, great people, and the enthusiasm was really incredible. The Los Angeles Times had a poll which was interesting because I was always up in that poll. They had something that is, I guess, a modern-day technique in polling, it was called enthusiasm. They added an enthusiasm factor and my people had great enthusiasm, and Hillary’s people didn’t have enthusiasm. And in the end she didn’t get the African-American vote and we ended up close to 15 points, as you know. We started off at one, we ended up with almost 15. And more importantly, a lot of people didn’t show up, because the African-American community liked me. They liked what I was saying.
So they didn’t necessarily vote for me, but they didn’t show up, which was a big problem that she had. I ended up doing very well with women, which was — which I never understood why I was doing poorly, because we’d go to the rallies and we’d have so many women holding up signs, “Women for Trump.” But I kept reading polls saying that I’m not doing well with women. I think whoever is doing it here would say that we did very well with women, especially certain women.
DEAN BAQUET,executive editor of The New York Times: As you describe it, you did do something really remarkable. You energized a lot of people in the country who really wanted change in Washington. But along with that — and this is going to create a tricky thing for you — you also energized presumably a smaller number of people who were evidenced at the alt-right convention in Washington this weekend. Who have a very…
TRUMP: I just saw that today.
BAQUET: So, I’d love to hear you talk about how you’re going to manage that
group of people who actually may not be the larger group but who have an expectation for you and are angry about the country and its — along racial lines. My first question is, do you feel like you said things that energized them in particular, and how are you going to
TRUMP: I don’t think so, Dean. First of all, I don’t want to energize the group. I’m not looking to energize them. I don’t want to energize the group, and I disavow the group. They, again, I don’t know if it’s reporting or whatever. I don’t know where they were four years ago, and where they were for Romney and McCain and all of the other people that ran, so I just don’t know, I had nothing to compare it to.
But it’s not a group I want to energize, and if they are energized I want to look into it and find out why.
What we do want to do is we want to bring the country together, because the country is
very, very divided, and that’s one thing I did see, big league. It’s very, very divided, and I’m going to work very hard to bring the country together.
I mean, I’m somebody that really has gotten along with people over the years. It
was interesting, my wife, I went to a big event about two years ago. Just after I started thinking about politics. And we’re walking in and some people were cheering and some people were booing, and she said, you know, ‘People have never booed for you.’
I’ve never had a person boo me, and all of a sudden people are booing me. She said,
that’s never happened before. And, it’s politics. You know, all of a sudden they think I’m going to be running for office, and I’m a Republican, let’s say. So it’s something that I had never experienced before and I said, ‘Those people are booing,’ and she said, ‘Yup.’ They’d never booed before. But now they boo. You know, it was a group and another group was going the opposite.
No, I want to bring the country together. It’s very important to me. We’re in a very
divided country. In many ways divided.
BAQUET: So I’m going to do that thing that executive editors get to do which
is to invite reporters to jump in and ask questions.
MAGGIE HABERMAN,political reporter: I’ll start, thank you, Dean. Mr. President, I’d like to thank you for being here. This morning, Kellyanne Conway talked about not prosecuting Hillary Clinton. We were hoping you could talk about exactly what that means — does that mean just the emails, or the emails and the foundation, and how you came to that decision.
TRUMP: Well, there was a report that somebody said that I’m not enthused about it. Look, I want to move forward, I don’t want to move back. And I don’t want to hurt the Clintons. I really don’t. She went through a lot. And suffered greatly in many different ways. And I am not looking to hurt them at all. The campaign was vicious. They say it
was the most vicious primary and the most vicious campaign. I guess, added together, it was definitely the most vicious; probably, I assume you sold a lot of newspapers.
I would imagine. I would imagine. I’m just telling you, Maggie, I’m not looking to
hurt them. I think they’ve been through a lot. They’ve gone through a lot.
I’m really looking … I think we have to get the focus of the country into looking
SULZBERGER: If I could interject, we had a good conversation there, you and I, and it was off the record, but there was nothing secret, just wanted to make sure. The idea of looking forward was one of the themes that you were saying. That we need to now get past the election, right?
MATTHEW PURDY, deputy managing editor: So you’re definitively taking that off the
table? The investigation?
TRUMP: No,but the question was asked.
PURDY: About the emails and the foundation?
TRUMP: No, no, but it’s just not something that I feel very strongly about. I
feel very strongly about health care. I feel very strongly about an immigration bill that I think even the people in this room can be happy. You know, you’ve been talking about immigration bills for 50 years and nothing’s ever happened.
I feel very strongly about an immigration bill that’s fair and just and a lot of other
things. There are a lot of things I feel strongly about. I’m not looking to look back and go through this. This was a very painful period. This was a very painful election with all of the email things and all of the foundation things and all of the everything that they went through and the whole country went through. This was a very painful period of time. I read recently where it was, it was, they’re saying, they used to say it was Lincoln against whoever and none of us were there to see it. And there aren’t a lot of recordings of that, right?
But the fact is that there were some pretty vicious elections; they say this was, this was the most. They say it was definitely the most vicious primary. And I think it’s very important to look forward.
CAROLYN RYAN, senior editor for politics: Do you think it would disappoint your
supporters who seemed very animated by the idea of accountability in the Clintons? What would you say to them?
TRUMP: I don’t think they will be disappointed. I think I will explain it, that we have to, in many ways save our country. Because our country’s really in bad, big trouble. We have a lot of trouble. A lot of problems. And one of the big problems, I talk about, divisiveness. I think that a lot of people will appreciate … I’m not doing it for that reason. I’m doing it because it’s time to go in a different direction. There was a lot of pain, and I think that the people that supported me with such enthusiasm, where they will show up at 1 in the morning to hear a speech.
It was actually Election Day, they showed up at, so that was essentially Election Day. Yeah, I think they’d understand very completely.
THOMAS L.FRIEDMAN, opinion columnist: Mr. President-elect, can I ask a question? One of the issues that you actually were very careful not to speak about during the campaign, and haven’t spoken about yet, is one very near and dear to my heart, the whole issue of climate change, the Paris agreement, how you’ll approach it. You own some
of the most beautiful links golf courses in the world …
[laughter, cross talk]
TRUMP: [laughing] I read your article. Some will be even better because actually like Doral is a little bit off … so it’ll be perfect. [inaudible] He doesn’t say that. He just says that the ones that are near the water will be gone, but Doral will be in great shape.
FRIEDMAN: But it’s really important to me, and I think to a lot of our readers, to know where you’re going to go with this. I don’t think anyone objects to, you know, doing all forms of energy. But are you going to take America out of the world’s lead of confronting climate change?
TRUMP: I’m looking at it very closely, Tom. I’ll tell you what. I have an open mind to it. We’re going to look very carefully. It’s one issue that’s interesting because there are few things where there’s more division than climate change. You don’t tend to hear this, but there are people on the other side of that issue who are, think, don’t even …
SULZBERGER: We do hear it.
FRIEDMAN: I was on ‘Squawk Box’ with Joe Kernen this morning, so I got an earful of it.
TRUMP: Joe is one of them. But a lot of smart people disagree with you. I have a very open mind. And I’m going to study a lot of the things that happened on it and we’re going to look at it very carefully. But I have an open mind.
SULZBERGER: Well, since we’re living on an island, sir, I want to thank you for having an open mind. We saw what these storms are now doing, right? We’ve seen it personally. Straight up.
FRIEDMAN: But you have an open mind on this?
TRUMP: I do have an open mind. And we’ve had storms always, Arthur.
SULZBERGER: Not like this.
TRUMP: You know the hottest day ever was in 1890-something, 98. You know, you
can make lots of cases for different views. I have a totally open mind.
My uncle was for 35 years a professor at M.I.T. He was a great engineer, scientist. He
was a great guy. And he was … a long time ago, he had feelings — this was a long time ago — he had feelings on this subject. It’s a very complex subject. I’m not sure anybody is ever going to really know. I know we have, they say they have science on one side but then they also have those horrible emails that were sent between the scientists. Where was that, in Geneva or wherever five years ago? Terrible. Where they got caught, you know, so you see that and you say, what’s this all about. I absolutely have an open mind. I will tell you this: Clean air is vitally important. Clean water, crystal clean water is vitally important. Safety is vitally important.
And you know, you mentioned a lot of the courses. I have some great, great, very successful golf courses. I’ve received so many environmental awards for the way I’ve done, you know. I’ve done a tremendous amount of work where I’ve received tremendous numbers. Sometimes I’ll say I’m actually an environmentalist and people will smile in some cases and other people that know me understand that’s true. Open mind.
JAMES BENNET,editorial page editor: When you say an open mind, you mean you’re just not sure whether human activity causes climate change? Do you think human activity is or isn’t connected?
TRUMP: I think right now … well, I think there is some connectivity. There is some, something. It depends on how much. It also depends on how much it’s going to cost our companies. You have to understand, our companies are noncompetitive right now. They’re really largely noncompetitive. About four weeks ago, I started adding a certain little sentence into a lot of my speeches, that we’ve lost 70,000 factories since W. Bush. 70,000. When I first looked at the number, I said: ‘That must be a typo. It can’t be 70, you can’t
have 70,000, you wouldn’t think you have 70,000 factories here.’ And it wasn’t a typo, it’s right. We’ve lost 70,000 factories.
We’re not a competitive nation with other nations anymore. We have to make ourselves competitive. We’re not competitive for a lot of reasons.
That’s becoming more and more of the reason. Because a lot of these countries that we
do business with, they make deals with our president, or whoever, and then they don’t adhere to the deals, you know that. And it’s much less expensive for their companies to produce products. So I’m going to be studying that very hard, and I think I have a very big
voice in it. And I think my voice is listened to, especially by people that don’t believe in it. And we’ll let you know.
FRIEDMAN: I’d hate to see Royal Aberdeen underwater.
TRUMP: The North Sea, that could be, that’s a good one, right?
ELISABETH BUMILLER, Washington bureau chief: I just wanted to follow up on
the question you were asked about not pursuing any investigations into Hillary Clinton. Did you mean both the email investigation and the foundation investigation — you will not pursue either one of those?
TRUMP: Yeah, look, you know we’ll have people that do things but my inclination
would be, for whatever power I have on the matter, is to say let’s go forward. This has been looked at for so long. Ad nauseam. Let’s go forward. And you know, you could also make the case that some good work was done in the foundation and they could have made mistakes, etc. etc. I think it’s time, I think it’s time for people to say let’s go and solve some of the problems that we have, which are massive problems and, you know, I do think that they’ve gone through a lot. I think losing is going through a lot. It was a tough, it was a very tough evening for her. I think losing is going through a lot. So, for whatever it’s worth, my, my attitude is strongly we have to go forward, we have so many different problems to solve, I don’t think we have to delve back in the past. I also think that would be a very divisive, well I think it would be very divisive, you know I’m talking about bringing together, and then they go into all sorts of stuff, I think it would be very, very divisive for the country.
SULZBERGER: I agree, I think speaking not as a journalist now, it’s very healthy. There, and then we’re going to go
MICHAEL D. SHEAR, White House correspondent: Mr. Trump, Mike Shear. I cover the White House, covering your administration …
TRUMP: See ya there.
SHEAR: Just one quick clarification on the climate change, do you intend to, as
you said, pull out of the Paris Climate …
TRUMP: I’m going to take a look at it.
SHEAR [interrupts]: And if the reaction from foreign leaders is to slap tariffs on American goods to offset the carbon that the United States had pledged to reduce, is that O.K. with you? And then the second question is on your sort of mixing of your global business interests and the presidency. There’s already, even just in the 10, two weeks you’ve been president-elect, instances where you’ve met with your Indian business partners …
SHEAR: You’ve talked about the impact of the wind farms on your golf course. People, experts who are lawyers and ethics experts, say that all of that is totally inappropriate, so I guess the question for you is, what do you see as the appropriate structure for keeping those two things separate, and are there any lines that you think you won’t want to cross once you’re in the White House?
TRUMP: O.K. First of all, on countries. I think that countries will not do that to us. I don’t think if they’re run by a person that understands leadership and negotiation they’re in no position to do that to us, no matter what I do. They’re in no position to do that to us, and
that won’t happen, but I’m going to take a look at it. A very serious look. I want to also see how much this is costing, you know, what’s the cost to it, and I’ll be talking to you folks in the not-too-distant future about it, having to do with what just took place.
As far as the, you know, potential conflict of interests, though, I mean I know that
from the standpoint, the law is totally on my side, meaning, the president can’t have a conflict of interest. That’s been reported very widely. Despite that, I don’t want there to be a conflict of interest anyway. And the laws, the president can’t. And I understand why the president can’t have a conflict of interest now because everything a president does in some ways is like a conflict of interest, but I have, I’ve built a very great company and it’s a big company and it’s all over the world. People are starting to see, when they look at all these different jobs, like in India and other things, number one, a job like that builds great relationships with the people of India, so it’s all good. But I have to say, the partners come in, they’re very, very successful people. They come in, they’d say, they said, ‘Would it be possible to have a picture?’ Actually, my children are working on that job. So I can say to them, Arthur, ‘I don’t want to have a picture,’ or, I can take a picture. I mean, I think it’s wonderful to take a picture. I’m fine with a picture. But if it were up to some people, I would never, ever see my daughter Ivanka again. That would be like you never seeing your son again. That wouldn’t be good. That wouldn’t be good. But I’d never, ever see my daughter Ivanka.
UNKNOWN: That means you’d have to make Ivanka deputy President, you know.
TRUMP: I know, I know, yeah. [room laughs] Well, I couldn’t do that either. I can’t, that can’t work. I can’t do anything, I would never see my, I guess the only son I’d be allowed to see, at least for a little while, would be Barron, because he’s 10. But, but, so there has to be [unintelligible]. It’s a very interesting case.
UNKNOWN: You could sell your company though, right? With all due respect, you
could sell your company and then …
TRUMP: Well …
UNKNOWN: And then you could see them all the time.
TRUMP: That’s a very hard thing to do, you know what, because I have real estate. I have real estate all over the world, which now people are understanding. When I filed my forms with the federal election, people said, ‘Wow that’s really a big company, that’s a big company.’ It really is big, it’s diverse, it’s all over the world. It’s a great company with great assets. I think that, you know, selling real estate isn’t like selling stock. Selling real estate is much different, it’s in a much different world. I’d say this, and I mean this and I said it on “60 Minutes” the other night: My company is so unimportant to me relative to what I’m doing, ’cause I don’t need money, I don’t need anything, and by the way, I’m very under-leveraged, I have a very small percentage of my money in debt, very very small percentage of my money in debt, in fact, banks have said ‘We’d like to loan you money, we’d like to give you any amount of money.’ I’ve been there before, I’ve had it both ways, I’ve been over-levered, I’ve been under-levered and, especially as you get older, under-levered is much better.
UNKNOWN: Mr. President-elect …
TRUMP: Just a minute, because it’s an important question. I don’t care about my company. I mean, if a partner comes in from India or if a partner comes in from Canada, where we did a beautiful big building that just opened, and they want to take a picture and come into my office, and my kids come in and, I originally made the deal with these people, I mean what am I going to say? I’m not going to talk to you, I’m not going to take pictures? You have to, you know, on a human basis, you take pictures. But I just want to say that I am given the right to do something so important in terms of so many of the issues we discussed, in terms of health care, in terms of so many different things. I don’t care about my company. It doesn’t matter. My kids run it. They’ll say I have a conflict because we just opened a beautiful hotel on Pennsylvania Avenue, so every time somebody stays at that hotel, if they stay because I’m president, I guess you could say it’s a conflict of interest. It’s a conflict of interest, but again, I’m not going to have anything to do with the hotel, and they may very well. I mean it could be that occupancy at that hotel will be because, psychologically, occupancy at that hotel will be probably a more valuable asset now than it was before, O.K.? The brand is certainly a hotter brand than it was before. I can’t help that, but I don’t care. I said on “60 Minutes”: I don’t care. Because it doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters to me is running our country.
MICHAEL BARBARO, political reporter: Mr. President-elect, can I press you a little further on what structures you would put in place to keep the presidency and the company separate and to avoid things that, for example, were reported in The Times in the past 24 hours about meeting with leaders of Brexit about wind farms …
TRUMP: About meeting with who?
BARBARO: Leaders of Brexit about wind farms that might interfere with the views of your golf course and how to keep, what structures, can you talk about that meeting, by the way?
TRUMP: Was I involved with the wind farms recently? Or, not that I know of. I mean, I have a problem with wind …
BARBARO: But you brought it up in the meeting, didn’t you?
TRUMP: Which meeting? I don’t know. I might have.
BARBARO: With leaders of Brexit.
MANY VOICES: With Farage.
TRUMP: Oh, I see. I might have brought it up. But not having to do with me, just I
mean, the wind is a very deceiving thing. First of all, we don’t make the windmills in the United States. They’re made in Germany and Japan. They’re made out of massive amounts of steel, which goes into the atmosphere, whether it’s in our country or not, it goes into the atmosphere. The windmills kill birds and the windmills need massive subsidies. In other words, we’re subsidizing wind mills all over this country. I mean, for the most part they don’t work. I don’t think they work at all without subsidy, and that bothers me, and they kill all the birds. You go to a windmill, you know in California they have the, what is it? The golden eagle? And they’re like, if you shoot a golden eagle, they go to jail for five years and yet they kill them by, they actually have to get permits that they’re only allowed to kill 30 or something in one year. The windmills are devastating to the bird population, O.K. With that being said, there’s a place for them. But they do need subsidy. So, if I talk negatively. I’ve been saying the same thing for years about you know, the wind industry. I wouldn’t want to subsidize it. Some environmentalists agree with me very much because of all of the things I just said, including the birds, and some don’t. But it’s hard to explain. I don’t care about anything having to do with anything having to do with anything other than the country.
BARBARO: But the structures, just to be clear, that’s the question. How do you
formalize the separation of these things so that there is not a question of whether or not you as president …
are trying to influence something, like wind farms?
TRUMP: O.K., I don’t want to influence anything, because it’s not that, it’s
not that important to me. It’s hard to explain.
BARBARO: Yes, but the structures?
TRUMP: Now, according to the law, see I figured there’s something where you put
something in this massive trust and there’s also — nothing is written. In other words, in theory, I can be president of the United States and run my business 100 percent, sign checks on my business, which I am phasing out of very rapidly, you know, I sign checks, I’m the old-fashioned type. I like to sign checks so I know what is going on as opposed to pressing a computer button, boom, and thousands of checks are automatically sent. It keeps, it tells me what’s going on a little bit and it tells contractors that I’m watching. But I
am phasing that out now, and handing that to Eric Trump and Don Trump and Ivanka Trump for the most part, and some of my executives, so that’s happening right now.
But in theory I could run my business perfectly, and then run the country perfectly. And there’s never been a case like this where somebody’s had, like, if you look at other people of wealth, they didn’t have this kind of asset and this kind of wealth, frankly. It’s just a
But there is no — I assumed that you’d have to set up some type of trust or whatever
and you know. And I was actually a little bit surprised to see it. So in theory I don’t have to do anything. But I would like to do something. I would like to try and formalize something, because I don’t care about my business.
Doral is going to run very nice. We own this incredible place in Miami. We own many
incredible places, including Turnberry, I guess you heard. There’s one guy that does — when I say Turnberry, you know what that is, right. Do a little [inaudible]. But they’re going to run well, we have good managers, they’re going to run really well.
So I don’t have to do anything, but I want to do something if I can. If there is
BARBARO: Can you promise us when you decide exactly what that is, you’ll come
tell The New York Times about it?
TRUMP: I will. I’ve started it already.
SULZBERGER: One of our great salesmen, by the way.
TRUMP: I can see that. I’ve started it already by, I mean, I’ve greatly reduced the check-signing and the business. I’ve greatly reduced meetings with contractors, meetings with different people that, you know, I’ve also started by — ’cause I’ve said over the last
two years, once I decided I wanted to run, I don’t want to build anything. ’Cause building, like for instance, we built the post office, you’ll be happy to hear, ahead of schedule and under budget. Substantially ahead of schedule. Almost two years ago of schedule. But ahead of schedule, under budget, and it’s a terrific place. That’s the hotel on Pennsylvania.
FRIEDMAN: Just so you know, General Electric has a big wind turbine factory in South
Carolina. Just so you know.
TRUMP: Well that’s good. But most of ‘em are made in Germany, most of ‘em are made, you know, Siemens and the Chinese are making most of them.
TRUMP: They may assemble — if you check, I think you’ll find that the, it’s delivered there and they do most of the assembly.
JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS, White House correspondent: Mr. President-elect — I’m sorry I entered late, but I did want to ask you about …
BAQUET: You should introduce yourself.
DAVIS: I’m Julie Davis, one of the White House correspondents.
TRUMP: Hi, Julie.
DAVIS: I apologize for my delayed flight. I wanted to ask you about personnel. They say personnel is policy.
TRUMP: I can’t quite hear.
DAVIS: You hired Steve Bannon to be the chief strategist for you in the White House. He is a hero of the alt-right. He’s been described by some as racist and anti-Semitic. I wonder what message you think you have sent by elevating him to that position and what you would say to those who feel like that indicates something about the kind of country you prefer and the government you’ll run.
TRUMP: Um, I’ve known Steve Bannon a long time. If I thought he was a racist, or alt-right, or any of the things that we can, you know, the terms we can use, I wouldn’t even think about hiring him. First of all, I’m the one that makes the decision, not Steve Bannon or anybody else. And Kellyanne will tell you that.
KELLYANE CONWAY: 100 percent.
TRUMP: And if he said something to me that, in terms of his views, or that I thought were inappropriate or bad, number one I wouldn’t do anything, and number two, he would have to be gone. But I know many people that know him, and in fact, he’s actually getting some very good press from a lot of the people that know him, and people that are on the left. But Steve went to Harvard, he was a, you know, he was very successful, he was a Naval officer, he’s, I think he’s very, very, you know, sadly, really, I think it’s very hard on him. I think he’s having a hard time with it. Because it’s not him. It’s not him. I’ve known him for
a long time. He’s a very, very smart guy. I think he was with Goldman Sachs on top of everything else.
UNKNOWN: What do you make of the website he ran, Breitbart?
TRUMP: The which?
TRUMP: Well, Breitbart’s different. Breitbart cover things, I mean like The New York Times covers things. I mean, I could say that Arthur is alt-right because they covered an alt-right story.
SULZBERGER: [laughing] I am, I am. I’ll take whatever you say. I am always right, but I’m not alt-right.
[laughter, cross talk]
TRUMP: The New York Times covers a lot of stories that are, you know, rough stories. And you know, they have covered some of these things, but The New York Times covers a lot of these things also. It’s just a newspaper, essentially. It’s a newspaper. I know the guy, he’s a decent guy, he’s a very smart guy. He’s done a good job. He hasn’t been with me that long. You know he really came in after the primaries. I had already won the primaries. And if I thought that his views were in that category, I would immediately let him go. And I’ll tell you why. In many respects I think his views are actually on the oher side of what a lot of people might think.
DAVIS: But you are aware, sir, with all due respect, that African-Americans and Jews and many folks who disagree with the coverage of Breitbart and the slant that Breitbart brings to the news view him that way, aren’t you?
TRUMP: Yeah, well Breitbart, first of all, is just a publication. And, you know, they cover stories like you cover stories. Now, they are certainly a much more conservative paper, to put it mildly, than The New York Times. But Breitbart really is a news organization that’s become quite successful, and it’s got readers and it does cover subjects that are on the right, but it covers subjects on the left also. I mean it’s a pretty big, it’s a pretty big thing. And he helped build it into a pretty successful news organization. Now, I’ll tell you what, I know him very well. I will say this, and I will say this, if I thought that strongly, if I thought that he was doing anything, or had any ideas that were different than the ideas that you would think, I would ask him very politely to leave. But in the meantime, I think he’s been treated very unfairly.
It’s very interesting ’cause a lot of people are coming to his defense right now.
PRIEBUS: We have never experienced a single episode of any of those accusations. It’s been the total opposite. It’s been a great team, and it’s just not there. And what the president-elect is saying is 100 percent true.
TRUMP: And by the way, if you see something or get something where you feel that I’m wrong, and you have some info — I would love to hear it. You can call me, Arthur can call me, I would love to hear. The only one who can’t call me is Maureen [Dowd, opinion columnist]. She treats me too rough. I don’t know what happened to Maureen! She was so good, Gail [Collins, opinion columnist]. For years she was so good.
SULZBERGER: As we all say about Maureen, it’s not your fault, it’s just your turn.
ROSS DOUTHAT, opinion columnist: I have a slightly different, but somewhat Steve
Bannon-related question, I guess. It’s about the future of the Republican Party. You started out here talking about winning in so many states where no Republican has won in decades, especially Midwestern Rust Belt states. And I think many people think that one of the reasons you won was that you deliberately campaigned as a different kind of Republican. You had different things to say on trade, entitlements, foreign policy, even your daughter Ivanka’s child care plan was sort of distinctive. And now you’re in a situation where you’re governing and staffing up an administration with a Republican Party whose leaders, and Reince, may differ with me a little on this, but don’t always see eye-to-eye on those views.
TRUMP: Although right now they’re loving me.
UNKNOWN: Well, right now they are.
TRUMP: Paul Ryan right now loves me, Mitch McConnell loves me, it’s amazing how winning can change things. I’ve liked Chuck Schumer for a long time. I’ve actually, I’ve raised a lot of money for Chuck and given him a lot of money over the years. I think I was the first person that ever contributed to Chuck Schumer. I had a Brooklyn office, a little office, in a little apartment building in Brooklyn in Sheepshead Bay where I worked with my father. And Chuck Schumer came in and I gave him, I believe, I don’t know if he’s willing to admit this, but I believe it was his first campaign contribution, $500. But Chuck Schumer’s a good guy. I think we’ll get along very well.
DOUTHAT: I guess that’s my question is, how much do you expect to be able to both run an administration and negotiate with a Republican-led Congress as a different kind of Republican. And do you worry that you’ll wake up three years from now and go back to campaigning in the Rust Belt and people will say, well, he governed more like Paul Ryan than like Donald Trump.
TRUMP: No, I don’t worry about that. ’Cause I didn’t need to do this. I was telling Arthur before: ‘Arthur I didn’t need to do this. I’m doing this to do a good job.’ That’s what I want to do, and I think that what happened in the Rust Belt, they call it the Rust Belt for a reason. If you go through it, you look back 20 years, they didn’t used to call it the Rust Belt. You pass factory after factory after factory that’s empty and rusting. Rust is the good
part, ’cause they’re worse than rusting, they’re falling down. No, I wouldn’t sacrifice that. To me more important is taking care of the people that really have proven to be, to love Donald Trump, as opposed to the political people. And frankly if the political people don’t take care of these people, they’re not going to win and you’re going to end up with maybe a total different kind of government than what you’re looking at right now. These people are
really angry. They’re smart, they’re workers, and they’re angry. I call them the forgotten men and women. And I use that in speeches, I say they’re the forgotten people — they were totally forgotten. And we’re going to bring jobs back. We’re going to bring jobs back, big league. I’ve spoken to so many companies already, I say, don’t plan on moving your company, ’cause you’re not going to be able to move your company and sell us your product. You think you’re going to just sell it across what will be a strong border, you know at least we’re going to have a border. But just don’t plan on it.
And I’ll tell you, I believe, and you’ll hear announcements over the next couple of months, but I believe I’ve talked numerous comp — in four-minute conversations with top people — numerous companies that have, leaving, or potentially leaving our country with thousands of jobs.
FRIEDMAN: Are you worried, though, that those companies will keep their factories here, but the jobs will be replaced by robots?
TRUMP: They will, and we’ll make the robots too.
TRUMP: It’s a big thing, we’ll make the robots too. Right now we don’t make the robots. We don’t make anything. But we’re going to, I mean, look, robotics is becoming very big and we’re going to do that. We’re going to have more factories. We can’t lose 70,000 factories. Just can’t do it. We’re going to start making things. I was honored yesterday, I got a call from Bill Gates, great call, we had a great conversation, I got a call from Tim Cook at Apple, and I said, ‘Tim, you know one of the things that will be a real achievement for me is when I get Apple to build a big plant in the United States, or many big plants in the United States, where instead of going to China, and going to Vietnam, and going to the places that you go to, you’re making your product right here.’ He said, ‘I understand that.’
I said: ‘I think we’ll create the incentives for you, and I think you’re going to do it. We’re going for a very large tax cut for corporations, which you’ll be happy about.’ But we’re going for big tax cuts, we have to get rid of regulations, regulations are making it impossible. Whether you’re liberal or conservative, I mean I could sit down and show you regulations that anybody would agree are ridiculous. It’s gotten to be a free-for-all. And companies can’t, they can’t even start up, they can’t expand, they’re choking.
I tell you, one thing I would say, so, I’m giving a big tax cut and I’m giving big regulation cuts, and I’ve seen all of the small business owners over the United States, and all of the big business owners, I’ve met so many people. They are more excited about the regulation cut than about the tax cut. And I would’ve never said that’s possible, because the tax cut’s going to be substantial. You know we have companies leaving our country because the taxes are too high. But they’re leaving also because of the regulations. And I would say, of the two, and I would not have thought this, regulation cuts, substantial regulation cuts, are more important than, and more enthusiastically supported, than even the big tax cuts.
UNKNOWN: Mr. President-elect, I wanted to ask you, there was a conference this past weekend in Washington of people who pledged their allegiance to Nazism.
TRUMP: Boy, you are really into this stuff, huh?
PRIEBUS: I think we answered that one right off the bat.
UNKNOWN: Are you going to condemn them?
TRUMP: Of course I did, of course I did.
PRIEBUS: He already did.
UNKNOWN: Are you going to do it right now?
TRUMP: Oh, I see, maybe you weren’t here. Sure. Would you like me to do it here? I’ll do it here. Of course I condemn. I disavow and condemn.
SULZBERGER: We’ll go with that. I’d like to move to infrastructure, apologies, and then we’ll go back. Because a lot of the investment you are talking about, a lot of the jobs you are talking about — is infrastructure going to be the core of your first few years?
TRUMP: No, it’s not the core, but it’s an important factor. We’re going for a lot of things, between taxes, between regulations, between health care replacement, we’re going to talk repeal and replace. ’Cause health care is — you know people are paying a 100 percent increase and they’re not even getting anything, the deductibles are so high, you have deductibles $16,000. So they’re paying all of this money and they don’t even get health care. So it’s very important. So there are a lot of things. But infrastructure, Arthur, is going to be a part of it.
SULZBERGER: It’s part of jobs, isn’t it?
TRUMP: I don’t even think it’s a big part of it. It’s going to be a big number but I think I am doing things that are more important than infrastructure, but infrastructure is still a part of it, and we’re talking about a very large-scale infrastructure bill. And that’s not a very Republican thing — I didn’t even know that, frankly.
SULZBERGER: It worked for Franklin Roosevelt.
TRUMP: It didn’t work for Obama because unfortunately they didn’t spend the money last time on infrastructure. They spent it on a lot of other things. You know, nobody can find out where that last — you know, from a few years ago — where that money went. And we’re going to make sure it is spent on infrastructure and roads and highways. I have a friend, he’s a big trucker, one of the biggest. And he orders these incredible trucks, the best, I won’t mention the name but it’s a certain truck company that makes — they call them the Rolls-Royce of trucks. You know, the most expensive trucks. And he calls me up about two months ago and he goes, ‘Man, I’m going to buy the cheapest trucks I can buy.’ And I said, ‘Why?’ and — you know, and this is the biggest guy — he goes, ‘My trucks are
coming back, they’re going from New York to California and they’re all busted up. The highways are in such bad shape, they’re hitting potholes, they’re hitting everything.’ He said, ‘I’m not buying these trucks anymore, I’m going to buy the cheapest stuff and the strongest tires I can get.’ That’s the exact expression he used, ‘the cheapest trucks and the strongest tires.’
We’re hitting so many bad points, we, you know, I said, ‘So tell me, you’ve been doing this how long?’ 45 years. He built it over 45 years. I said, ‘Have you ever seen it like this?’ He said, ‘The roads have never been like this.’ It’s an interesting …
BAQUET: What did, what did, I’m curious what Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan said when you said, ‘I’m going to launch a multibillion-dollar infrastructure program.’ Are they reluctant to spend that?
TRUMP: Honestly right now …
DOUTHAT: Trillion. Trillion, I think, was the figure.
BAQUET: Because they would be in the wing of the Republican Party that would say, ‘That’s great, but you’re not going to be able to do that and balance the budget.’
TRUMP: Let’s see if I get it done. Right now they’re in love with me. O.K.? Four weeks ago they weren’t in love with me. Don’t forget — if I read The New York Times, and you don’t have to put this on the record — it can be if you want, you might not want …
SULZBERGER: You say if, but you do …
TRUMP: Well, I do read it. Unfortunately. I would have lived about 20 years longer if I didn’t.
SULZBERGER: There’s Nixon’s quote right there if you’d love to reread it —
TRUMP: I know. But when you look at the different, all the newspapers, I was going to lose the presidency, I was going to take the House with me, and the Senate had no chance. It was going to be the biggest humiliation in the history of politics in this country. And instead I won the presidency, easily, and I mean easily — you look at those states, I had states where I won by 30 and 40 points. I won the presidency easily, I helped numerous senators — in fact the only senators that didn’t get elected were two — one up in New Hampshire who refused to say that she was going to vote for me, who by the way would love a job in the administration and I said, ‘No, thank you.’ That’s on the record. This is where I’m different than a politician — I know what to say, I just believe it’s sort of interesting.
She’d love to have a job in the administration, I said, ‘No, thank you.’ She refused to vote for me. And a senator in Nevada who frankly said, he endorsed me then he unendorsed me, and he went down like a lead balloon. And then they called me before the race and said they wanted me to endorse him and do a big thing and I said, ‘No thank you, good luck.’ You know, let’s see what happens. I said, off the record, I hope you lose. Off the record. He was! He was up by 10 points — you know who I’m talking about.
So, others — if you look at Missouri, [Senator Roy] Blunt, he was down five points a few days before the election, he called for help, I gave him help, and I think I was up like over 30 points in Missouri. I was leading by a massive amount, 28 points. I gave him help and he ended up winning by four points or something. I brought a number of them Pennsylvania, brought over the finish line. Let’s see, we brought Johnson, in, you know, that was a good one. We brought him over the line in Wisconsin. Winning Wisconsin was big stuff, that’s something that …
FRIEDMAN: Mr. President-elect, I came …
TRUMP: So right now I’m in very good shape, but
FRIEDMAN: I came here thinking you’d be awed and overwhelmed by this job, but I feel like you are getting very comfortable with it.
TRUMP: I feel comfortable. I feel comfortable. I am awed by the job, as anybody would be, but I honestly, Tom, I feel so comfortable and you know it would be, to me, a great achievement if I could come back here in a year or two years and say — and have a lot of the folks here say, ‘You’ve done a great job.’ And I don’t mean just a conservative job, ’cause I’m not talking conservative. I mean just, we’ve done a good job.
SHEAR: To follow up on Matt, after you met with President Obama, he described you to folks as — that you seemed overwhelmed by what he told you. So I wonder if you are overwhelmed by the magnitude of the job that you’re about to inherit and if you can tell us anything more about that conversation with the president and the apparently subsequent
conversations that you’ve had on the phone since then. And then maybe talk a little bit about foreign policy, that’s something we haven’t touched on here, and whether or not you believe in the kind of world order — a world order led by America in terms of having this country underwrite the security and the free markets of the world, which have been in place for decades.
TRUMP: Sure. I had a great meeting with President Obama. I never met him before. I really liked him a lot. The meeting was supposed to be 10 minutes, 15 minutes max, because there were a lot of people waiting outside, for both of us. And it ended up being — you were there — I guess an hour-and-a-half meeting, close. And it was a great chemistry. I think if he said overwhelmed, I don’t think he meant that in a bad way. I
think he meant that it is a very overwhelming job. But I’m not overwhelmed by it. You can do things and fix it, I think he meant it that way. He said very nice things after the meeting and I said very nice things about him. I really enjoyed my meeting with him. We have — you know, we come from different sides of the equation, but it’s nevertheless something that — I didn’t know if I’d like him. I probably thought that maybe I wouldn’t, but I did, I did like him. I really enjoyed him a lot. I’ve spoken to him since the meeting.
SHEAR: What did you say to him?
TRUMP: Just a basic conversation. I think he’s looking to do absolutely the right thing for the country in terms of transition and I really, I’m telling you, we had a meeting, Arthur, that went for an hour and a half that could have gone for three or four hours. It was a great — it was just a very good meeting.
UNKNOWN: Sort of like this meeting.
[cross talk, laughter]
TRUMP: He told me what he thought his, what the biggest problems of the country
were, which I don’t think I should reveal, I don’t mind if he reveals them. But I was actually surprised a little bit. But he told me the problems, he told me things that he considered assets, but he did tell me what he thought were the biggest problems, in particular one problem that he thought was a big problem for the country, which I’d rather have you ask him. But I really found the meeting to be very good. And I hope we can have a good — I mean, it doesn’t mean we’re going to agree on everything, but I hope that we will have a great long-term relationship. I really liked him a lot and I’m a little bit surprised I’m telling you that I really liked him a lot. Let’s go foreign policy, sure. Sure.
FRIEDMAN: What do you see as America’s role in the world? Do you believe that the role …
TRUMP: That’s such a big question.
FRIEDMAN: The role that we played for 50 years as kind of the global balancer, paying more for things because they were in our ultimate interest, one hears from you, I sense, is really shrinking that role.
TRUMP: I don’t think we should be a nation builder. I think we’ve tried that. I happen to think that going into Iraq was perhaps … I mean you could say maybe we could have settled the civil war, O.K.? I think going into Iraq was one of the great mistakes in the history of our country. I think getting out of it — I think we got out of it wrong, then lots of bad things happened, including the formation of ISIS. We could have gotten out of it differently.
FRIEDMAN: NATO, Russia?
TRUMP: I think going in was a terrible, terrible mistake. Syria, we have to solve that problem because we are going to just keep fighting, fighting forever. I have a different view on Syria than everybody else. Well, not everybody else, but then a lot of people. I had to
listen to [Senator] Lindsey Graham, who, give me a break. I had to listen to Lindsey Graham talk about, you know, attacking Syria and attacking, you know, and it’s like you’re now attacking Russia, you’re attacking Iran, you’re attacking. And what are we getting?
We’re getting — and what are we getting? And I have some very definitive, I have some very strong ideas on Syria. I think what’s happened is a horrible, horrible thing. To look at the deaths, and I’m not just talking deaths on our side, which are horrible, but the deaths — I mean you look at these cities, Arthur, where they’re totally, they’re rubble, massive areas, and they say two people were injured. No, thousands of people have died. O.K. And I think it’s a shame. And ideally we can get — do something with Syria. I spoke to Putin, as you know, he called me, essentially …
UNKNOWN: How do you see that relationship?
TRUMP: Essentially everybody called me, all of the major leaders, and most of them I’ve spoken to.
FRIEDMAN: Will you have a reset with Russia?
TRUMP: I wouldn’t use that term after what happened, you know, previously. I think — I would love to be able to get along with Russia and I think they’d like to be able to get along with us. It’s in our mutual interest. And I don’t go in with any preconceived notion, but I will tell you, I would say — when they used to say, during the campaign, Donald Trump loves Putin, Putin loves Donald Trump, I said, huh, wouldn’t it be nice, I’d say this in front of thousands of people, wouldn’t it be nice to actually report what they said, wouldn’t it be nice if we actually got along with Russia, wouldn’t it be nice if we went after ISIS together, which is, by the way, aside from being dangerous, it’s very expensive, and ISIS shouldn’t have been even allowed to form, and the people will stand up and give me a massive hand. You know they thought it was bad that I was getting along with Putin or that I believe
strongly if we can get along with Russia that’s a positive thing. It is a great thing that we can get along with not only Russia but that we get along with other countries.
JOSEPH KAHN,managing editor: On Syria, would you mind, you said you have a very
strong idea about what to do with the Syria conflict, can you describe that for us?
TRUMP: I can only say this: We have to end that craziness that’s going on in Syria. One of the things that was told to me — can I say this off the record, or is everything on the record?
SULZBERGER: No, if you want to …
TRUMP: I don’t want to violate, I don’t want to violate a …
SULZBERGER: If you want to go off the record, we have agreed you can go off the record. Ladies and gentlemen, we are off the record for this moment.
[Trump speaks off the record.]
TRUMP: Now we can go back on.
SULZBERGER: I’m going to play the cop here. We’ve got only two and a half minutes left, because they have a hard stop at 2. And by the way, I want to thank you again, on behalf of all of us …
TRUMP: Thank you.
SULZBERGER: for this meeting, and really I mean that. We are back on the record.
Maggie, you get the last question.
TRUMP: Is he a tough boss, folks? Is he tough?
HABERMAN: I have two questions, very, very quickly. One is your vice president-elect left open the idea of returning to waterboarding. You talked about that on the campaign trail. I’m hoping you can talk about how you view torture at this point, and also what are you hoping that Jared Kushner will do in your administration and will you bring him in formally?
TRUMP: O.K., O.K. So, I didn’t hear the second question.
HABERMAN: Jared Kushner. What will Jared Kushner’s role be in your administration?
TRUMP: Oh. Maybe nothing. Because I don’t want to have people saying ‘conflict.’ Even though the president of the United States — I hope whoever is writing this story, it’s written fairly — the president of the United States is allowed to have whatever conflicts
he wants — he or she wants. But I don’t want to go by that. Jared’s a very smart guy. He’s a very good guy. The people that know him, he’s a quality person and I think he can be very helpful. I would love to be able to be the one that made peace with Israel and the Palestinians. I would love that, that would be such a great achievement. Because nobody’s been able to do it.
HABERMAN: Do you think he can be part of that?
TRUMP: Well, I think he’d be very good at it. I mean he knows it so well. He knows the region, knows the people, knows the players. I would love to be — and you can put that down in a list of many things that I’d like to be able to do. Now a lot of people tell me, really great people tell me, that it’s impossible, you can’t do it. I’ve had a lot of, actually, great Israeli businesspeople tell me, you can’t do that, it’s impossible. I disagree, I think you can make peace. I think people are tired now of being shot, killed. At some point, when do they come? I think we can do that. I have reason to believe I can do that.
HABERMAN: And on torture? Where are you — and waterboarding?
TRUMP: So, I met with General Mattis, who is a very respected guy. In fact, I met with a number of other generals, they say he’s the finest there is. He is being seriously, seriously considered for secretary of defense, which is — I think it’s time maybe, it’s time for a general. Look at what’s going on. We don’t win, we can’t beat anybody, we don’t win anymore. At anything. We don’t win on the border, we don’t win with trade, we certainly don’t win with the military. General Mattis is a strong, highly dignified man. I met with him at length and I asked him that question. I said, what do you think of waterboarding? He said — I was surprised — he said, ‘I’ve never found it to be useful.’ He said, ‘I’ve always found, give me a pack of cigarettes and a couple of beers and I do better with that than I do with torture.’ And I was very impressed by that answer. I was surprised, because he’s known as being like the toughest guy. And when he said that, I’m not saying it changed my mind. [An earlier version made a mistake in transcription. Mr. Trump said “changed my mind,” not “changed my man.”] Look, we have people that are chopping off heads and drowning people in steel cages and we’re not allowed to waterboard. But I’ll tell you what, I
was impressed by that answer. It certainly does not — it’s not going to make the kind of a difference that maybe a lot of people think. If it’s so important to the American people, I would go for it. I would be guided by that. But General Mattis found it to be very less important, much less important than I thought he would say. I thought he would say — you know he’s known as Mad Dog Mattis, right? Mad Dog for a reason. I thought he’d say ‘It’s phenomenal, don’t lose it.’ He actually said, ‘No, give me some cigarettes and some drinks, and we’ll do better.’
SULZBERGER: So, I, with apologies, I’m going to go to our C.E.O., Mark Thompson, for the last, last question.
TRUMP: Very powerful man …
MARK THOMPSON: Thank you, and it’s a really short one, but after all the talk about libel and libel laws, are you committed to the First Amendment to the Constitution?
TRUMP: Oh, I was hoping he wasn’t going to say that. I think you’ll be happy
I think you’ll be happy. Actually, somebody said to me on that, they said, ‘You know, it’s a great idea, softening up those laws, but you may get sued a lot more.’ I said, ‘You know, you’re right, I never thought about that.’ I said, ‘You know, I have to start thinking about that.’ So, I, I think you’ll be O.K. I think you’re going to be fine.
SULZBERGER: Well, thank you very much for this. Really appreciate this.
TRUMP: Thank you all, very much, it’s a great honor. I will say, The Times is, it’s a great, great American jewel. A world jewel. And I hope we can all get along. We’re looking for the same thing, and I hope we can all get along well.
I will be adding commentary later on….
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Sigh…There is so much going on in the world that it is an unending resource for those of us that comment on society, and the current tidal change in our Political world.
- massive premium increases
- people unable to get insurance because of preexisting conditions
- people losing their policies after a claim
- the sale of policies that cover NOTHING and so are little more than an excuse for the Insurance Agency to suck cash from the subscriber’s pocket
- life-time caps on coverage (which are almost always low enough that a serious health issue will top them out, leaving the patient with the choice of dying, or going bankrupt from their attempts to pay for needed coverage.
Another serious issue that the Republicans like to ignore, or blow smoke over to conceal, is the fact that repealing the ACA will, by ALL estimates, cost America well over $1 TRILLION dollars in coming years, and likely destroy many jobs. There are plenty of studies that show this available with a simple, Google search.
This will cause upwards of 20 MILLION Americans to lose their health insurance.
This is not a guess, this is not speculation. These are FACTS.
- Police Protection – How many of us could afford hiring a subscription to a private security service that we could call when disaster happens to us at home. Then, there is the issue of being on the road, and getting into an accident. Even if we are not at fault, HOW is that mess going to be dealt with? Finally, there is the security issue itself. Will an employee of a private company be as willing to run TOWARDS danger and possible death? Mercenaries, while a bit strange from my point of view, may be good at what they do, but, when push comes to shove a vast majority of them will say “I preserve ME, first…THEN the other guy”.
- Fire Protection – We, in America are blessed with a huge population of men and women who, like police, run TOWARDS danger instead of away from it. They, with quiet courage, ride their trucks into the unknown, taking on tasks ranging from battling wildfires eating thousands of acres and likely to turn and eat them at any moment, to rescuing a companion animal from a tree, or stream, or culvert where they have gotten stuck. They do this with grace and a caring attitude, and put their own lives second in many of these situations.
- Infrastructure Creation and Repair – There is a road running by your house. There are street lights that illuminate the road, making it safer to drive, there are bridges that cross impassable barriers, and a thousand other things that are the foundation of our life here in America. The men and women who work on these tasks are, in general, dedicated, hard workers who want to do the job as well as they can, both for you, a stranger they may never have met, and for their families who likely drive on the roads and bridges they support and are directly affected by how well the structures are maintained. Would YOU want to be “Self Reliant” and either pay a crew to keep the road along your property paved, or take care of the task yourself? What if a downed tree damages the power lines to your house? Going to fix THAT on your own? This, by the by, includes clean water supplies and in some cases, trash and waste disposal. Do you want to have to dig a septic system and maintain it? Do YOU want to have to make frequent runs to a commercial trash collector station, where you would likely have to pay a fee for EVERY bag of trash you put in the system?
- Public Education – We, as a society, use tax revenue to support a public school system that is free for all. This free education extends through High School. Now, other countries are rather different about that. Uganda, for example, has no publicly funded High School system – which is far too common in the area. So…for a child to go to High School requires a significant payment from the parents. The end result? A population that has a small proportion of its kids getting any education beyond elementary school. Look around at today’s society for a second – I will wait – Ok…can you really say that someone with less than a High School education can really be successful in dealing with the complexities of this world? Or, for that matter, look for any opportunity for work that is past the dishwasher/line cook level? Say you had three kids…one boy, two girls. How much would YOU pay to ensure that they each would make it out of High School? $5000/year for 4 years? That is a real possibility.
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I am not a great fan of awards shows. There are many reasons for this, which perhaps I will examine in a different blog entry. That having been said, Meryl Streep, who was given a the Cecil B. DeMille Award for her work, used much of the time allocated for her acceptance Speech to speak about the current political situation, and the donald. It is worth spending a few minutes to watch, as Ms. Streep reminds us of the puerile behavior and speech of our President-Elect. HERE is another story on the interaction
- Once again, he demonstrates that he is both thin-skinned AND vindictive. It might be acceptable to issue a public statement that he disagreed with Ms. Streep’s characterization of his demonstrating the handicapped reporter’s mannerisms. However, he went far beyond that point.
- Anyone that says anything that tweaks him is an enemy, to be slapped down hard…so, he starts off his rant by slagging her reputation, trying to weaken her comments with insults.
- He lies…blatantly, and almost constantly. To me, the above recording does show him mocking the reporter. In addition, his remarks about Ms. Streep are without merit either. She is not “One of the most over-rated actresses in Hollywood”. Even today, she can command the screen better than even 10 copies of the donald all clustered around squeaking for attention could do. She was NOT attacking him but was decrying his actions and speech, as well she should, as it was an ugly moment among too many ugly moments in the campaign. Finally, “100th time?” that seems a bit exaggerated, although it might be at least half way to the truth.
- His volatility is a problem (More on that in a bit). Do we REALLY want a person who can launch Nuclear Missiles in the position to do so, when he has shown that he is a chicken-hawk, and not only could become angry at a slight by a world leader, and launch, and, has a proven history of asking “What good is there in having Nukes, if we cannot use them”.
There are many more, of course, but I have commented on them in other blog entries this year, and, they are well documented on line. To get back to that point about volatility for a moment, though, I wanted to pass along this commentary by Keith
Olbermann. He is a very insightful, and articulate man, and recently posted a video aimed at the donald cultists in specific, and all Citizens in general, why he thinks there is something wrong with the donald. and offering suggestions on how to prepare for drastic action. He has known the donald for 20 years or more, and has interviewed him a number of times. This, to me, enforces the seriousness of his words. If you have not seen it, I strongly suggest you watch, and consider THIS VIDEO ESSAY. It is a powerful indictment of the donald, and bears serious consideration. Keith has lost his job at several News Channels because of his focus on the truth, and his outspoken rants that gore the ox of powerful people. One of the somewhat chilling things about this essay is that this is no rant…it is as calm and balanced as can be…He Means It. Not to dilute this entry, but I suggest visiting Olbermann’s YouTube Channel and watching other examples of his work. He is not always correct, and sometimes I feel he has gone over the edge…but, overall, he is one, IMPRESSIVE voice.
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Greetings and Salutations;
Well, just a quick update on the progress of the political train wreck that the 2016 Presidential Election turned into. The last chance of deflecting the disaster came and went a few days ago, when the House rubber-stamped the votes of the Electoral College, and Certified the election of the donald as President. Not only is it a terrible commentary on today’s world, that both the Electoral College and the House would abdicate their responsibilities under the Constitution, and allow the results from a deeply flawed election stand, but, it speaks to the cowardice of the 100 Senators that we appointed, as the best of the best, to Represent us. There were a number of House members who raised objections to the Electoral College vote, and attempted to delay its certification until a full investigation could be completed. However, it requires ONE Senator to have the courage and character to endorse these objections for them to have any effect on the outcome. Not a single Senator stood and supported our Democracy. They sat there, silent, and watched the collapse of the house of cards.
I want to note that the objections raised by the House Members were quite serious, and valid objections. Their main point was that, by this point in time, over 50 Electors who cast votes were not qualified to BE a member of the Electoral College. The main point was that no Electoral College Voter can be an office holder in the Government. However, almost every one of the challenged Voters were, indeed, Office Holders in some level of Government.
Well, That having been said, there is a fellow out there in the Cyber Ocean by the name of Chris Brecheen, who just published a sharp, and well written summary of the Cognitive Dissonance that ALL the folks that voted for the donald had to live with. I found it impressive enough that (along with the the links to the Original) I am quoting it here. It may be that not every point applies to every person that voted for the donald…However, a vast majority of them DO, and as a group, all these points apply.
If you are still trying to convince yourself that a Trump presidency will not be that bad, here is (some of) the cognitive dissonance that exists within that narrative of normalization:
- That a presidential nominee who you praised for not being a typical politician (one who goes back on their promises) will go back on their promises…..but only the ones you don’t like (like cutting YOUR government support or maybe that Muslim registry that DID sound kind of scary). The ones you liked he’ll do. Absolutely.
- That nearly every person who has either lived through or studied Hitler’s rise to power suddenly, all at once, decided to become melodramatic and overwrought. For no reason.
- That he says what he means and you like that. Except for the stuff that you swear you weren’t okay with him saying. You’re not a racist or anything. That was just bluster. But the stuff you agree with wasn’t just bluster; it was totally sincere. You are able to tell exactly which things are bluster and exactly which things he has high integrity about.
- That a guy who lies almost every time his mouth is open was totally telling the truth to you. Totally. And sure he lies all the time, but he’s right about all the stuff you agree with him about. Yep.
- That a presidential nominee who bragged during nationally televised debates about scamming freelance workers and spent twenty-five million to settle a fraud lawsuit can be trusted to know exactly where the water’s edge of “conflict of interest” is between his personal investments and US interests and doesn’t need the slightest oversight.
- That a presidential nominee who bragged during nationally televised debates about scamming freelance workers and spent twenty-five million to settle a fraud lawsuit totally wasn’t saying anything he had to to win so he could defraud YOU.
- That these appointments aren’t terrifying at all. Breathtaking cronyism in a historically uneducated and inexperienced cabinet with a bent towards white supremacy and anti-LGBTQ+ policy is only alarming because everyone on the left is a sore loser.
- That Republican paranoia about shit that Obama never said he would do (like taking away your guns) was justified, but our fear of explicit campaign promises is blowing things out of proportion.
- That Russia hasn’t ever done anything enemy-ish, is absolutely blameless, would never do such a thing, and you should mock everyone who thinks otherwise. Even those seventeen U.S. intelligence agencies. Because what did they ever do.
- That nothing bad ever happened when a president decided not to pay attention to an intelligence report. *cough9/11cough*
- That your vote was all about economics. Not even a teensie weensie bit about race or bigotry. (Even though those “identity politics PC folks” sure had it coming!) Despite the fact that Trump’s tax plan very clearly spelled out that your taxes would be (and will be) going up unless you are a business or in the top 1%. But let’s go with the economy. Absolutely.
- That intelligence agencies are somehow only trustworthy if they are accusing Hillary Clinton of a crime.
- That someone who has called American citizens of the opposition party his “enemies” in a taunt that a twelve year old 4channer would find petulant egged on by a mainstream constituency that is delighted at how much pain and suffering “those fucking coastal elites” are about to endure is somehow going to heal the divisions of our country.
- That the party that once used “pinko commie” as an insult to the left to insinuate that they were in league with Russia is now darned cool with those guys and their curious blend of anti-LGBT, one party, imperialistic oppression.
- That after enduring eight years of birther crap, racism, faux lynchings, literal burning effigies, the rhetoric of taking the country “back,” watching the Tea party rise as a Koch brothers astroturf movement involving a bunch of white dudes in revolutionary war costumes calling the administration of a right leaning Democrat (with an infuriating penchant for compromise) “tyranny,” as well as an unprecedented obstructionism at every single level of government, liberals should just “get over it” because “He won.”
- That the REAL problem is that a group who is trying to get everyone the same rights, achieve equality, listen to others’ lived experiences, and empower those pushed to the margins of our society is lacking empathy. If only we’d learn to build a bridge.
- That in a country where the status quo is already violently unjust towards certain people, an administration that has openly voiced hostility towards these people will make things better.
- That a head of state who chooses not only to ignore a foreign attack by our enemies, but also mocks the sitting president who retaliated with sanctions….then turns around and PRAISES the foreign head of state who almost certainly attacked us…. That THAT guy is going to keep US interests safe.
- That a dude who didn’t realize his tweet calling for a boycott of Apple was going to reveal that it had come from an iPhone somehow knows more about hacking than 17 U.S. intelligence communities and a host of private analysts.
- That a guy who brags about grabbing women by the pussy isn’t sexist and it totally wasn’t even a little sexist to go ahead and vote to make him the most powerful person on Earth.
- Repeat the last point for racism, xenophobia, ableism and every shitty bigoted thing he has said or done. But it totally isn’t even a little bigoted that all this stuff wasn’t a deal breaker, and liberals are just being “hateful” to suggest it.
- That “the least racist person you’ll ever meet” appointed a white supremacist to a new White House position.
- That a person with an ego so frail that they take to twitter at the slightest criticism (be it from SNL portrayals or a Broadway musical with the audacity to hope that all US citizens would gain equal protection) is going to be an effective diplomat, and totally won’t have a nuclear power rattling its saber at him before he’s even sworn in.
- That negative three million votes is a “mandate.”
- That the problem with a widely diverse groups struggling against the bigotry of cis het white male lawmakers to enact policy that will not target and possibly help marginalized groups is that we are “elites.”
- That nuclear proliferation is a big competition and Trump can “win.”
- That the guy who not only has been conspicuously silent about the shocking uptick in hate crimes but has also demanded a list of the federal employees involved in combatting the rise of extremist groups (but won’t say why) isn’t going to be as bad for minorities as he’s being painted, and all “those people” are just making mountains out of molehills.
- That being cheered on by Nazis is not an inauspicious sign.
- That calling Obama racial slurs and racist epithets are just free speech, but pointing out when Trump is lying with facts should be cracked down on because it’s so hateful.
- That someone who hates taxing the rich and hates unions and hates regulations and hates bipartisan cooperation isn’t talking about the social hegemony of cis het white men when he wistfully looks to the past while invoking a promise to make America “great again.”
- That it’s too late to admit you’ve made a mistake and join us in our every effort to #RESIST
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- His administration tracked down and killed Osama Bin Laden.
- He inherited an economy in shambles, now it is in considerably better shape.
- The Stock Market was tanking NOW, the Stock Market is at record highs;
- Companies were shutting down, causing massive job loss. NOW, new businesses are opening up and growing and job growth has been on a steady upward swing.
- the Federal Deficit which was causing a huge growth in the National Debt, has been cut by 3/4.
- He managed to get the first, real healthcare insurance reform in the history of the country passed.
- Our international reputation was in shambles, but since he took office, our international reputation has Improved every year.
- He wants to eliminate the ACA during his first 100 days in the office. This will mean that the insurance companies will be free to return to the same, abusive actions they gloried in for years, including massive premium increases, denying insurance for pre-existing conditions, dropping people who use their policies, putting caps on payouts and a host of other actions that made it impossible for millions of Americans to get health insurance for years. The immediate effect will be that close to 20 million Americans will lose their insurance coverage.
- He has packed his Cabinet with billionaires who have no experience or knowledge about running the departments they have been put in charge of. Not only does it appear that the only qualification for holding a Cabinet level Job in the donald’s administration is to have given him a lot of money. No Change THERE and I would be hard put to call that “Draining The Swamp”.
- Every one of the people, save ONE, that he has put on his Cabinet and assigned to run an agency of the government has a long record of being totally against that agency. This means that their only goal is likely to disassemble the agency and destroy it. No changes there, as the Right-Wing has wanted to remove the agencies that constrain their greed and protect the rest of the Citizens for decades.
- He has announced massive tax cuts for the 1% who have most of the money in America. No change there.
- He has claimed that he will do all this improvement of infrastructure, yet has no way to pay for it! No change there.
- It is a fact that almost every economist who looks at his economic plans says that they will cause a huge drop in revenue, so, even if he does little or nothing to improve the country’s infrastructure, it will cause the deficit to spike upwards and cause a huge growth in the debt…Guess what? No change there.
- To touch on the Cabinet again…during the campaign, the donald was spitting fire over HRC’s giving a speech to Goldman Sachs. Well, guess who he has added to his administration? Several executives from Goldman Sachs, of course.
- In addition, he has said many things about getting the lobbyists out of the government’s way. Well, again…guess what he has added to his administration? SEVERAL Lobbyists.
- If you are REALLY for change…then take time to communicate those desires to your Representatives.
- If they do not work on those changes, or ignore you…work to get them voted out of office.
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Greetings and Salutations;
- It is a reminder that while (for Christians) it is a celebration of the birth of Christ, the holiday has become so drowned in Materialism that the message of tolerance, love, and helping one’s neighbor has been lost.
- Right now, there is a Veteran who is taking his or her own life because the physical and mental injuries of war have become too great to live with.
- Right now, there are too many Americans who are huddling over street grates, trying to get a little warmth against the bitter cold of the Winter.
- Right now, there are aged relatives, living in a facility, who have no old friends and family visit them…and sometimes a five minute phone call is all the contact they get this year with their family.
- Right now, there are LGBTQ folks who are being thrown out of their family because of their sexual orientation, or who have not had a holiday with their family for that reason.
- This inhumanity is not limited to HUMANS either.
- Right now, there are millions of companion animals living in the wild because their people have decided to take them on a ride and dump them out somewhere far from home, for no good reason.
- Right now, there are hundreds of thousands of companion animals for whom today was their last day in the world. Why? Because the shelter they were dumped into ran out of room and has killed them to clear out cages for the next wave.
- Do not just say “I should contribute something to a charity”. Take five minutes and DO it. Most organizations these days have an online presence that will allow donations through the Net. Use http://www.charitynavigator.org/ to find a cause to donate to, and to make sure the charity you are supporting is not just a scam. Here, by the by, are a few Charities that I rather like.
- Donations to your local University to support grant programs. This is great as all Universities have programs to help deserving students who show great promise, but cannot afford higher education, to attend.
- The K.I.N.D. fund – http://www.msnbc.com/kind-fund This program, created by Lawrence O’Donnell, pays for school desks for kids who now have to sit on the floor. It has also started subsidizing high school (which is NOT free in many, African countries) to allow kids to push on with their education.
- Heifer International – https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=3809 This group helps the impoverished with animals and other sources of food and money. I am lucky enough to have a relative who, every year, contributes enough for a beehive to this worthy cause.
- Local Veteran’s support groups – Look around…make a couple of calls in your town. There are too many groups who help Vets with rehabilitation and rehab, and housing and food available. A contribution to one of these helps support a person who has, in fact, put their life on the line for you – a stranger.
- Local Animal shelters – Gifts of cash or needed supplies will do much good for our companion animals who have been lost or discarded.
- Rescue Groups – Look online, etc. There are many rescue groups who want to save the discarded from an early death, and restore some Karmic Balance by finding them good homes and loving guardians. Money is always useful. Time can be a great gift. Even if you only do it once…that is ONE animal whose life has been made better. That is worth a lot.
- Rescue an animal yourself – If you can, open your family of choice to a companion animal (or two). They add an enormous amount to one’s life, and cost very little. If you can take an older animal from the shelter, or a bonded pair, that is even better, as they are the least adoptable, and so most likely to either spend their days in a small cage (if lucky enough to be in a “no kill” shelter) or be executed to get them out of the way (if not).
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The people chose Hillary Clinton. But it’s the electoral vote that counts, not the popular vote, so Donald Trump will be president. And no, I’m not over it.No one should be over it. No one should pretend that Trump will be a normal president. No one should forget the bigotry and racism of his campaign, the naked appeals to white grievance, the stigmatizing of Mexicans and Muslims. No one should forget the jaw-dropping ignorance he showed about government policy both foreign and domestic. No one should forget the vile misogyny. No one should forget the mendacity, the vulgarity, the ugliness, the insanity. None of this should ever be normalized in our politics.The big protests that have followed Trump’s election should be no surprise. You can’t spend all those months trashing our nation’s values and then expect everyone to join you in a group hug. Trump made the bed in which he now must lie.How did the unthinkable happen? Is Trump, like Brexit, part of some world-sweeping populist wave? Are the Rust Belt hinterlands in open rebellion? Was Clinton just a spectacularly flawed candidate? Did FBI Director James B. Comey boost Trump over the top? Did too many anti-Trump voters stay home out of complacency?There is evidence to support all of those theories. But the urgent question isn’t why? — it’s what now?
If a normal Republican had been elected, I could say the polite and socially acceptable thing, something like “I didn’t support So-and-So, but he will be my president, too, and I wish him success.” But I cannot wish Trump success in rounding up and deporting millions of people or banning Muslims from entering the country or re-instituting torture as an instrument of U.S. policy. In these and other divisive, cruel, unwise initiatives, I wish him failure. I do hope he succeeds in avoiding some kind of amateurish foreign policy blunder that puts American lives or vital national interests at risk. And let me be clear that I am not questioning his legitimacy as president. When the results are certified and the electoral college casts its votes, Trump will be the nation’s duly chosen leader, ridiculous though that may be. he has not earned our trust or hope. Rather, he has earned the demonstrations that have erupted in cities across the country. He has earned relentless scrutiny by journalists, whom he shamelessly made into scapegoats during the campaign, and he has earned the constant vigilance of the public he now must serve. There have been more than 200 reports since the election of harassment and hate crimes, mostly directed at minorities, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. During an interview broadcast Sunday on “60 Minutes,” Trump addressed his supporters: “I will say this, and I will say right to the cameras: Stop it.”That would have been a better start had he not also sought to minimize the incidents, saying there had been a “very small amount” of them; and had he not also claimed the media was somehow applying a double standard in reporting on the protests.The most troubling post-election development thus far was Trump’s appointment of campaign chief executive Stephen K. Bannon — a prominent figure in the racist, xenophobic alt-right movement — as chief strategist and senior adviser. A spokesman for Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) said the move “signals that white supremacists will be represented at the highest levels in Trump’s White House.”
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